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18 minutes ago, ...Dan... said:

It's a great win for ANY team in Europe - I'm not disputing that at all - I'm just saying I don't think they can be regarded as favourites for the whole tournament, it's just my opinion of course and I think they always come up short at the business end and I think they will again even with Ronaldo, he a poacher nowadays and while he is still a great goalscorer he isn't quite the talisman he once was (he can't grab a game by the scruff of the neck like Messi can for example). 

They are third favourites behind City and Barcelona and I think that is about fair but I still wouldn't rule out Real who always seem to come good and deliver at the business end of the CL. 

He's never been a talisman type player - he did (and still does)  score an insane amount of goals, all with a varying degree of difficulty - something i think he does better than Messi. Which ultimately makes them both equal imo. 

I think with the addition of the best player in the world - ups their chances massively - many people would make them favourites, not just me. Right now - i wouldn't be confident any of those teams you mentioned could beat Juve, particularly the current Real/Barca teams. City could match them closely imo though. Juve have the perfect blend of attack/midfield/defence this season. 

You don't have to agree that they are favourites from your perspective, but surely you have to understand why many others DO makes them favourites this season. 

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I know you didn't ask me but I don't think he is. He only really had 2 or 3 years where he was performing consistently for you.

If I'm completely honest I don't really get the love in he still has with some Man United fans, he essentially forced a move to a European rival over ten years ago, the way some fans go on about him you'd think he was a one club man at Man United.

He's a Real Madrid legend for sure though. 

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I love the man. He has to be our greatest ever player as he’s one of the best of all time so he has to be but club legend? I’m not sure. I can’t blame him for wanting to move to Madrid. He won everything at United and it was time to move on, I’m ok with that. 

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20 minutes ago, Scott. said:

I love the man. He has to be our greatest ever player as he’s one of the best of all time so he has to be but club legend? I’m not sure. I can’t blame him for wanting to move to Madrid. He won everything at United and it was time to move on, I’m ok with that. 

I do get that view as well but I think you need to perform at your peak for a longer period at a club to be a club legend.

Giggs, Scholes and Rooney are all club legends for me. Ronaldo is better than all of them of course but I think club legend and being one of the best of all time are two different things, I think you need to take into account service to the club more than actual ability, in my opinion anyway.

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1 hour ago, Scott. said:

@Roux

Is Cristiano a Manchester United legend? 

Absolutely. One of our greatest players ever.

Got us on the edge of our seats from day one to the day he left. 

Won everything - FA Cups, UCL, PL - and was pivitol in all of them.

First Ballon D'or winner for the club since 68' when Best won it.  

Every fan would have him in their top 5 or 10 in United's history. 

Hardly missed a game too in 6 seasons - averaged around 45 games per season which is incredible. 

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Huge gulf in class between both clubs on and off the pitch. We’ve spent hundreds of millions since Fergie retired and not one of our outfield players would get on city’s bench. Simple as that. In fact I’m not sure what the money has gone on because that team we started with was pure mediocrity. Proper mid table stuff. We’re 8th atm and that’s about right. We’re a mid table side. 

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51 minutes ago, Scott. said:

Huge gulf in class between both clubs on and off the pitch. We’ve spent hundreds of millions since Fergie retired and not one of our outfield players would get on city’s bench. Simple as that. In fact I’m not sure what the money has gone on because that team we started with was pure mediocrity. Proper mid table stuff. We’re 8th atm and that’s about right. We’re a mid table side. 

I kind of agree.

You can argue all you want about City and their ethics as a club but Man United have simply spunked money up the wall whereas City have invested very wisely.

When you look at the money spent over the past few years there is no reason why you shouldn't be at least competing with them.

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Yeah we should. Manchester City have a plan and are run properly. They actually act like a big football club where as United who are a genuine world super power are run by clowns. We don’t act like a big club. No other big club would aimlessly spunk money up the wall or continue to hire the wrong manager. 

Why have we bought Fred? 50 million he cost and he can’t get a game. Why? Why have we fucking bought him?? We could of spent that on a world class CB. 

It’s fucking getting me down. Just feels like there’s no way back for us, how can there be when the club is a fucking circus? 

Worst thing the club ever done was hire Moyes when pep was available. It’s set us back years. David fucking Moyes, I still can’t wrap my head around it. The worst thing is we deserve it. We deserve to watch city and Liverpool fight it out for titles not that the owners give a flying fuck not as long as those Korean noodle brands are flying in eh? Fucking yank cunts

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13 hours ago, Scott. said:

Yeah we should. Manchester City have a plan and are run properly. They actually act like a big football club where as United who are a genuine world super power are run by clowns. We don’t act like a big club. No other big club would aimlessly spunk money up the wall or continue to hire the wrong manager. 

Why have we bought Fred? 50 million he cost and he can’t get a game. Why? Why have we fucking bought him?? We could of spent that on a world class CB. 

It’s fucking getting me down. Just feels like there’s no way back for us, how can there be when the club is a fucking circus? 

Worst thing the club ever done was hire Moyes when pep was available. It’s set us back years. David fucking Moyes, I still can’t wrap my head around it. The worst thing is we deserve it. We deserve to watch city and Liverpool fight it out for titles not that the owners give a flying fuck not as long as those Korean noodle brands are flying in eh? Fucking yank cunts

I honestly think Jose has tried to build Chelsea/Inter v2.0 - it's not 2005 anymore, it's 2018. Buying a load of physical and tall players just doesn't work - the game has moved on. 

Look at City and a lot of the better teams, full up of quick midgets with a low centre of gravity and an amazing touch, they run rings around big dithering ogres who can't run. Football is always changing and maybe the Jose way will work again one day but it doesn't anymore, he will always be able to get a massive result here and there (City last year, Juve last week) but if he keeps setting teams up this way he won't be able to do it consistently. 12 games in with a negative goal difference is mental for a club like yours. 

Ander Herrera is also a fucking myth of a player, has one good game a season man marking someone and that's about it, he was abysmal yesterday (Matic was awful as well to be honest)

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United now I’m talks to extend Young’s and Valencia’s contract. Fuck off. These cunts weren’t good enough 8 years ago so why the fuck are they getting a new contract?? The club is fucked. We have no ambition. Why are we not going out and signing two world class fullbacks like City did? 

Biggest club in the world my arse. We’re absolutely fucked. 

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12 hours ago, Scott. said:

United now I’m talks to extend Young’s and Valencia’s contract. Fuck off. These cunts weren’t good enough 8 years ago so why the fuck are they getting a new contract?? The club is fucked. We have no ambition. Why are we not going out and signing two world class fullbacks like City did

Biggest club in the world my arse. We’re absolutely fucked. 

because the transfer window is shut?

Couldn't give a shit about the City result - was always stacked against us with the midweek game and the injuries to Pogba/Sanchez. You need to have your best team against a team like City. 

Agree Matic has been really really poor this season. Herrera is a far better and dynamic option. 

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22 hours ago, ...Dan... said:

I honestly think Jose has tried to build Chelsea/Inter v2.0 - it's not 2005 anymore, it's 2018. Buying a load of physical and tall players just doesn't work - the game has moved on. 

Look at City and a lot of the better teams, full up of quick midgets with a low centre of gravity and an amazing touch, they run rings around big dithering ogres who can't run. Football is always changing and maybe the Jose way will work again one day but it doesn't anymore, he will always be able to get a massive result here and there (City last year, Juve last week) but if he keeps setting teams up this way he won't be able to do it consistently. 12 games in with a negative goal difference is mental for a club like yours. 

Ander Herrera is also a fucking myth of a player, has one good game a season man marking someone and that's about it, he was abysmal yesterday (Matic was awful as well to be honest)

Herrera was brilliant against Juve and changed the game against Bournemouth - its just your usual spouting nonsense again. 

United have some of the quickest players in the game - none of the players Jose bought (except Matic) are exactly slow!  Lukaku, Pogba, Liderlof, Baily, Fred, Mhiki, Dalot are all pretty quick. 

Too me United look tired after playing 3 games in a week - and that's a valid excuse, City were much fresher after their UCL home game against a weak team. Losing our best player made a big difference too.

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24 minutes ago, Roux said:

Herrera was brilliant against Juve and changed the game against Bournemouth - its just your usual spouting nonsense again. 

United have some of the quickest players in the game - none of the players Jose bought (except Matic) are exactly slow!  Lukaku, Pogba, Liderlof, Baily, Fred, Mhiki, Dalot are all pretty quick. 

Too me United look tired after playing 3 games in a week - and that's a valid excuse, City were much fresher after their UCL home game against a weak team. Losing our best player made a big difference too.

If he's good enough for where you want to be then fair enough, isn't Man United class in my opinion. Does a decent job of man marking Eden Hazard every now and then though. 

Lukaku - looks like he has bulked up far too much, has made him lose quite a bit of his pace - also has the touch of a rapist. 
Pogba - not slow but hardly rapid, he is good on the ball though and has that moment of magic, although I think he loses possession far too much for a world class player. 
Lindelof - can't say I've really noticed him when it comes to pace so hard to comment.
Bailly - he's rapid, but a centre back - also terrible on the ball and struggles to play from the back.
Fred - £50m benchwarmer that Jose clearly doesn't fancy, irrelevant as it stands.
Mhiki - plays for Arsenal.
Dalot - can't get in the team, although he looked good when I saw him play against Young Boys.

I wasn't even necessarily referring to blistering pace and sheer speed, more dynamism in the creative positions. D Silva, B Silva, KDB, Mahrez etc...none of those are absolute lightning but they are agile, have a great touch and have a low centre of gravity that allows for balance and for them to move the ball a lot quicker and in tight situations. Apart from Pogba maybe, who else can do that in the creative positions for you? Martial when he's on form maybe? even Rashford and Sanchez struggle with it but City basically have them in every single position. Even Fernandinho who is meant to be their bruiser is great on the ball and plays the quarter back role really well. 

They have built a team over time with a plan, Jose and Man United over the past 5 years have built Frankenstein, there's been no real identity or plan.  

I don't dispute City were fresher either but that's football and I still think you have to be putting up a better fight than that. 
 

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1 hour ago, ...Dan... said:

If he's good enough for where you want to be then fair enough, isn't Man United class in my opinion. Does a decent job of man marking Eden Hazard every now and then though. 

Lukaku - looks like he has bulked up far too much, has made him lose quite a bit of his pace - also has the touch of a rapist. 
Pogba - not slow but hardly rapid, he is good on the ball though and has that moment of magic, although I think he loses possession far too much for a world class player. 
Lindelof - can't say I've really noticed him when it comes to pace so hard to comment.
Bailly - he's rapid, but a centre back - also terrible on the ball and struggles to play from the back.
Fred - £50m benchwarmer that Jose clearly doesn't fancy, irrelevant as it stands.
Mhiki - plays for Arsenal.
Dalot - can't get in the team, although he looked good when I saw him play against Young Boys.

I wasn't even necessarily referring to blistering pace and sheer speed, more dynamism in the creative positions. D Silva, B Silva, KDB, Mahrez etc...none of those are absolute lightning but they are agile, have a great touch and have a low centre of gravity that allows for balance and for them to move the ball a lot quicker and in tight situations. Apart from Pogba maybe, who else can do that in the creative positions for you? Martial when he's on form maybe? even Rashford and Sanchez struggle with it but City basically have them in every single position. Even Fernandinho who is meant to be their bruiser is great on the ball and plays the quarter back role really well. 

They have built a team over time with a plan, Jose and Man United over the past 5 years have built Frankenstein, there's been no real identity or plan.  

I don't dispute City were fresher either but that's football and I still think you have to be putting up a better fight than that. 
 

I think he's proved he's a United player - his consistently good performances against the top team constantly get ignored by you. Obviously he's been injured alot this season but you can see why Jose loves the guy.  

All the players mentioned are quick and fairly good on the ball. Hardly tall players than can't move! Players like Dalot are Fred are good players that need time to adapt - no different to someone like Bernardo Silva who struggled to get into the City team when he joined. Both players have clear quality. 

Pobga, Mata, Lingaard, Fred, Sanchez, Martial, Rashford can all do what you described - they are creative players that can make things happen. As a team, it's nowhere near as effective as City at the moment - which is why i think Sanchez is a better option than Lukaku up front. Those city players have the freedom to play because they have a good set of defenders - United don't. 

The results have actually been pretty decent since the West Ham defeat. Beat some tricky teams - this game was always going to be alot harder because of the Juve game for us - it really showed on the pitch. We effectively played 2 of the best sides in Europe (both away) in the space of a few days and did okay. The next few games should be winnable and most of the teams above us play each other. 

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