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Cyber Grope

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Patient #48273    2726

I can definitely see how someone who's been sexually assaulted in real life could be re-traumatized by that, but I wouldn't call what happened in virtual reality sexual assault. Probably harassment, though.

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Clarke    1365

It's sexual harassment, certainly not sexual assault.  This leads me to wonder what could be considered sexual assault though over virtual reality. The only thing that I can thing of is if virtual reality gets to the point where our entire body's and senses are connected to it, where you could physically feel what it's basically like to be touched by somebody else. Even then, I'm still up in the air about it. Certainly ban-worthy behavior nonetheless, as it shouldn't be happening.

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_Kyle_    6360

We actually talked about this in my world building class. Once technology gets advanced enough, it's certainly a possibility and there will be virtual rapes and assaults. Kind of crazy.

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M!ke    3024

Anyone else see the hypocrisy though? I mean we're talking about video games where you can kill each other in game, often that's the point of these games, yet no one is complaining that they've been "virtually murdered."  Fact is, at the end of the day, these are just video games, no matter how advanced they get, they aren't real and you always have it in your power to simply take off the VR unit, turn it off, exit the game, or just exit to a different lobby without creeps.  I'm not saying I condone such behavior, but I am saying that I don't think its a real issue, this is something that can at any time be stopped by the person it is happening to.

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_Kyle_    6360

Not necessarily, like if technology gets good enough that people can hack into your virtual world and assault you continuously.

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M!ke    3024
9 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

Not necessarily, like if technology gets good enough that people can hack into your virtual world and assault you continuously.

Then you get a new screen name and avatar or whatever.  If they really bother you, don't use the technology.  Like I said, I don't condone it, but I don't equate it at all with the real life equivalent, if I did, then there are a lot of people I need to sue for virtually murdering me.

Frankly, as fucked as it may sound, I honestly wonder if as virtual reality advances that we might actually see a decrease in real life assault.  The type of sociopaths that wish to murder people in real life, might get their fill from fake murdering people in these simulations as they seem more and more real, same goes for people that might rape in real life.  I will say that it'd be preferred if these people only did such a thing to NPCs and not other players, but again regardless, it isn't real, and if it ever does feel too real or bothers you too much then you just get out of there, you can't be locked into these situations at all.

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_Kyle_    6360
15 minutes ago, M!ke said:

Then you get a new screen name and avatar or whatever.  If they really bother you, don't use the technology.  Like I said, I don't condone it, but I don't equate it at all with the real life equivalent, if I did, then there are a lot of people I need to sue for virtually murdering me.

Frankly, as fucked as it may sound, I honestly wonder if as virtual reality advances that we might actually see a decrease in real life assault.  The type of sociopaths that wish to murder people in real life, might get their fill from fake murdering people in these simulations as they seem more and more real, same goes for people that might rape in real life.  I will say that it'd be preferred if these people only did such a thing to NPCs and not other players, but again regardless, it isn't real, and if it ever does feel too real or bothers you too much then you just get out of there, you can't be locked into these situations at all.

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/25/technology/developer-sexual-assault-virtual-reality/

Lol, so basically if you're a woman, stop playing VR games. Really Mike?

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M!ke    3024
11 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

http://money.cnn.com/2016/10/25/technology/developer-sexual-assault-virtual-reality/

Lol, so basically if you're a woman, stop playing VR games. Really Mike?

I didn't say that.  I said if you're constantly being harassed in VR (which is probably not going to constantly happen to anyone, but if you are), then yeah, maybe its in your best interest to not use VR.  Else if you have any individual instance that starts happening for a moment, just get out of there, like I said you're not locked into these things. This all absolutely applies to guys as well.

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_Kyle_    6360
1 minute ago, M!ke said:

I didn't say that.  I said if you're constantly being harassed in VR (which is probably not going to constantly happen to anyone, but if you are), then yeah, maybe its in your best interest to not use VR.  Else if you have any individual instance that starts happening for a moment, just get out of there, like I said you're not locked into these things.

So say women are constantly being harassed (which is a thing), I don't think them sitting out of VR is a good solution. Especially if 51% of the population is afraid of being bombarded with harassment. It's not good for any of us.

But also in the future, they might be "locked" in. Technology is crazy and we don't know where it might go. That might be a thing in a couple hundred years.

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M!ke    3024
9 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

So say women are constantly being harassed (which is a thing), I don't think them sitting out of VR is a good solution. Especially if 51% of the population is afraid of being bombarded with harassment. It's not good for any of us.

But also in the future, they might be "locked" in. Technology is crazy and we don't know where it might go. That might be a thing in a couple hundred years.

Not in VR it's not. Yet anyway, maybe it will happen, but not yet, one instance is not a constant thing.  I don't see why sitting out of VR would be a bad situation, I've seen people so moral about things that they wont play video games where they can murder or be murdered, so they don't play those games.  Similar situation, except most everyone aren't out to rape you in VR.

If they are dumb enough to lock people into VR in the future, that would be a nightmare, can you imagine if you were playing a game and your house starts on fire and you couldn't quickly get the unit off?  As fun as an anime like Sword Art Online is, its just a terrible idea and completely unreasonable to think we'd ever have devices like that, they'd be way too dangerous and asking for an onslaught of different kinds of lawsuits.

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M!ke    3024
Just now, _Kyle_ said:

VR is still in its infancy. Trust me, it will be a thing.

Then they'll inevitably get sued.  Because a situation similar to what I explained will eventually happen, and someone will actually die in real life because they couldn't get the VR unit off.  I find that to be a much more concerning situation with what VR might become because people could actually get hurt or die and not just virtually.  Hell, if VR does lock you in, in a similar way as Sword Art Online, then someone could actually rape you in real life while you're stuck in the game.  Again, I find that much more concerning.

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_Kyle_    6360

Also, just let's be certain here. Are you saying sexual harassment isn't in video games online? Because that's already a thing. Now say VR becomes a big thing. Are you really not seeing the potential for this to be even worse? I dunno if you've ever played with women ever in games, but what guys say to them is fucking awful and annoying. You aren't treated the same.

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M!ke    3024
Just now, _Kyle_ said:

Also, just let's be certain here. Are you saying sexual harassment isn't in video games online? Because that's already a thing. Now say VR becomes a big thing. Are you really not seeing the potential for this to be even worse? I dunno if you've ever played with women ever in games, but what guys say to them is fucking awful and annoying. You aren't treated the same.

Not what I'm saying at all.  I'm saying that someone constantly being raped in VR is not a thing.  Could be worse in the future, sure.  Again though, if anything bothers you, just get out, there are shitty people in the world and there always will be, but its so much better that they'd be taking their aggressions out in a virtual space than in a real space especially since you always have the power to leave that situation at any time.

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_Kyle_    6360
29 minutes ago, M!ke said:

Not what I'm saying at all.  I'm saying that someone constantly being raped in VR is not a thing.  Could be worse in the future, sure.  Again though, if anything bothers you, just get out, there are shitty people in the world and there always will be, but its so much better that they'd be taking their aggressions out in a virtual space than in a real space especially since you always have the power to leave that situation at any time.

It can be a thing and it will rise as it becomes more widely available. You seem to be open to that, but then you feel like it's not worth worrying about? And that the people who are being harassed should just ...get out and leave? Again, if I had to leave game after game because I was being harassed, that's destroying the fun I would have in said game. See the problem?

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M!ke    3024
9 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

It can be a thing and it will rise as it becomes more widely available. You seem to be open to that, but then you feel like it's not worth worrying about? And that the people who are being harassed should just ...get out and leave? Again, if I had to leave game after game because I was being harassed, that's destroying the fun I would have in said game. See the problem?

Simply put I think what will happen is that some developer will realize there is a market for this and someone will make some intricate VR game where you can have sex and rape other players because there are actually people of both genders on both sides of that kind of interaction that fantasize about that type of thing.  And it would become more or less a safe space for these types of people to do just that.  Sure, you'll get a creep every now and then in real games, just as you do in non-VR games.  But these instances will be few and far between, and again you can always get out whenever you want at your will, you are not trapped in this VR, you want to argue in the future, in hundreds of years that might be a possiblity, I argue that such a situation really has more issues associated with what could happen to you in real life when you're locked in game, but regardless, we can argue about that issue in a few hundred years when it may actually be an issue.

If you aren't having fun in said game, then don't play said game or with the people you are playing with, see the solution?  Ever play a game where people cheat and its frustrating as all hell?  Did you sue over it and cry about it?  Or did you just exit that lobby and go to another one where there weren't cheaters?  This situation really isn't anything new, and there are simple ways to get away from it.  It is absolutely not a big deal, it doesn't come anywhere close to what the equivalent is in real life.  You can't just decide in real life that you're in a shitty situation and instantly be teleported to a safe space by taking off a helmet.  It just isn't same no matter how real these VR games get.

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_Kyle_    6360
4 minutes ago, M!ke said:

Simply put I think what will happen is that some developer will realize there is a market for this and someone will make some intricate VR game where you can have sex and rape other players because there are actually people of both genders on both sides of that kind of interaction that fantasize about that type of thing.  And it would become more or less a safe space for these types of people to do just that.  Sure, you'll get a creep every now and then in real games, just as you do in non-VR games.  But these instances will be few and far between, and again you can always get out whenever you want at your will, you are not trapped in this VR, you want to argue in the future, in hundreds of years that might be a possiblity, I argue that such a situation really has more issues associated with what could happen to you in real life when you're locked in game, but regardless, we can argue about that issue in a few hundred years when it may actually be an issue.

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/03/24/gaming-will-always-be-for-men-until-the-industry-addresses-its-sexual-harassment-problem/

You might get a creep every now and then, but women are far more likely to be harassed during online games than men. It is a problem. With VR becoming a more mainstream form of gaming, the likeliness of that being a problem is going to increase. I'm sure they'll have to figure out ways around that problem, but it's still going to be a thing. Given how much more likely people are to harass people anonymously, it's going to take more work for gaming companies to stop people from targeting women.

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M!ke    3024
10 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

http://thenextweb.com/insider/2016/03/24/gaming-will-always-be-for-men-until-the-industry-addresses-its-sexual-harassment-problem/

You might get a creep every now and then, but women are far more likely to be harassed during online games than men. It is a problem. With VR becoming a more mainstream form of gaming, the likeliness of that being a problem is going to increase. I'm sure they'll have to figure out ways around that problem, but it's still going to be a thing. Given how much more likely people are to harass people anonymously, it's going to take more work for gaming companies to stop people from targeting women.

Ok, but nothing you're saying makes my point that you can get out of VR at any time any less valid.  There is no real danger and it doesn't come close to equating to the real life act.  That's my point, and that's been my point the whole time.  Harassers are just like cheaters, no one wants to play with them, and you can easily abandon them at any time in these video games.  There really isn't much of anything you can say to make me think different about this kind of situation.  So it would appear we've met an impasse.  Can we just agree that we both think this is scummy behavior, and that we both have understandable view points on the subject?  I think that's fair and true, and I don't want this to turn into a Clarke argument where we just go in circles over the same issues and no one's opinion is ultimately changed.

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_Kyle_    6360
5 minutes ago, M!ke said:

Ok, but nothing you're saying makes my point that you can get out of VR at any time less valid.  There is no real danger and doesn't come close to equating to the real life act.  That's my point, and that's been my point the whole time.  

Never said it was? I'm just saying it's going to be a problem, and more so as technology advances.

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