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Recording Equipment and Questions, Advice, Etc.


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1 hour ago, NJansaid said:

Logic is fkn SWEET.  Thanks @Kay . Huge shout out because I almost got suckered into the 'try this new expensive DAW, it might actually make you sound better' trap and wasted a lot of money.  Every single DAW is so friggin deep and jam-packed, you are fine, might as well work with what you know and it takes so much effort on the going in anyways. 

Wahey! Glad it's working for you. 

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I fucking hate recording, this shit is so goddam stressfull.  As soon as you get a good sound in one area/frequency, it muddies up in another area and sends you down this madhouse spiral paint yourself into a corner but get so frustrated at the time spent you click save as.

Mixing mainly I should say.  But then again, fuck recording, the amount of time spent getting a decent acoustic sound that isn't muffled is an art of its own.

I've gained mass amount is respect for all audio engineers, they deserve everything for modern musicians.

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Also if anyone was gonna start from scratch, I would estimate 2-3 years at least before being even remotely decent at mixing.  I've dabbled with this stuff for years and as soon as you actually dig in the massive asshole that is a DAW, you will never see it the same again. You will spend hours tinkering with levels all to get miniscule improvements, one tutorial just leads to another tutorial.  As soon as you've learned how to fix all EQ, compression, spacing, you find you were supposed to do it in Mono first. 

 

Not to mention all this could be avoided if Logic just had better amps.  I've tried every single combination and they are just ass.  Clean is okay.

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18 minutes ago, Jan's Plan said:

Also if anyone was gonna start from scratch, I would estimate 2-3 years at least before being even remotely decent at mixing.  I've dabbled with this stuff for years and as soon as you actually dig in the massive asshole that is a DAW, you will never see it the same again. You will spend hours tinkering with levels all to get miniscule improvements, one tutorial just leads to another tutorial.  As soon as you've learned how to fix all EQ, compression, spacing, you find you were supposed to do it in Mono first. 

 

Not to mention all this could be avoided if Logic just had better amps.  I've tried every single combination and they are just ass.  Clean is okay.

There is also a lot of nonsense in lots of tutorials. The fundamentals are the same, but there are different approaches on a lot of things.

I agree with everything you said though. I'll say this though:

8h watching tutorials < 8h making music and training your ear

There is just so much stuff that can't be generalized the way some of those youtubers do. Also, most of them are endorsed by brands.

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1 hour ago, Neal said:

There is also a lot of nonsense in lots of tutorials. The fundamentals are the same, but there are different approaches on a lot of things.

I agree with everything you said though. I'll say this though:

8h watching tutorials < 8h making music and training your ear

There is just so much stuff that can't be generalized the way some of those youtubers do. Also, most of them are endorsed by brands.

I agree I just was starting to feel like Logics amp sims were not capable and lead me down that rabbit hole.

They all repeat the same things, not because it's more important, but probably to boost their content.

I don't get why mixing in Mono is that important when we listen in stereo, so shouldn't you master it sounding great in that department?

I really do think it comes down to developing a ear, whenever you follow every tutorial it sounds ends up sounding boring to me, fundamentals yes, you need to know to pan, look at EQ, but stuff like 'download this Waves app, fade this, bla bla' seems like a lot of extra work for minimal difference.

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8 hours ago, Jan's Plan said:

I agree I just was starting to feel like Logics amp sims were not capable and lead me down that rabbit hole.

They all repeat the same things, not because it's more important, but probably to boost their content.

I don't get why mixing in Mono is that important when we listen in stereo, so shouldn't you master it sounding great in that department?

I really do think it comes down to developing a ear, whenever you follow every tutorial it sounds ends up sounding boring to me, fundamentals yes, you need to know to pan, look at EQ, but stuff like 'download this Waves app, fade this, bla bla' seems like a lot of extra work for minimal difference.

Yeah, just mix in stereo. Counter check from time to time how it sounds in mono and adjust.

I'd rather make compromises in mono but have a great sounding stereo mix.

Yeah theres not much need to download a shitton of plug ins. Logic has enough great stock plug ins to make a great mix. If you can't get good results with that, you won't get good results with more plug-ins

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Neal is right. Check mono but focus on stereo.

How much time are you spending on getting your recording done right jan? Mic positions and all that? Ideally you’d want to be doing as little processing as possible. Slight EQ touch up and a some compression. If you’re getting super muddled every time you mess with a different frequency it could be an issue from sound you recorded.

Are you doing full band? Acoustic? What sort of microphones you got? What’s your set up?

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4 hours ago, Neal said:

Yeah theres not much need to download a shitton of plug ins. Logic has enough great stock plug ins to make a great mix. If you can't get good results with that, you won't get good results with more plug-ins

I'm convinced their amp sims are bad though. I've tried every combination with it and I think they're just screechy or dull/lifeless. But I don't want to shell out $250 for a third party program.

Everything else I've learned is in there oneway or another.. you can get just about any sound.

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50 minutes ago, Jan's Plan said:

I'm convinced their amp sims are bad though. I've tried every combination with it and I think they're just screechy or dull/lifeless. But I don't want to shell out $250 for a third party program.

Everything else I've learned is in there oneway or another.. you can get just about any sound.

Have a look at this guy. He seems to get a pretty good sound using the amp designer in logic. It could very well have to do with your set up and recording. How are you listening back to everything? Through headphones? Computer speakers? Or proper monitors?

 

also FYI if you want you can find the waves plug ins on torrent websites and get them for free. 

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5 hours ago, Russel Coight said:

Neal is right. Check mono but focus on stereo.

How much time are you spending on getting your recording done right jan? Mic positions and all that? Ideally you’d want to be doing as little processing as possible. Slight EQ touch up and a some compression. If you’re getting super muddled every time you mess with a different frequency it could be an issue from sound you recorded.

Are you doing full band? Acoustic? What sort of microphones you got? What’s your set up?

I'm only recording guitars for the most part, acoustic and adding a bit of crunch after (attempting to).  I have a good mic, Perception 420, it honestly does wonders for vocals and decent on guitar.  But as soon as I get into the mix it's like 'hidden' and muffled or muddy and go through mind twists to try different variations, but anything that sounds good standalone sounds crappy in the mix. I don't have much problem with drums and bass at all.  I think I'm adding way too much EQ boosts or something, my graphs look like a mad scientist. But with them off it sounds dull as hell.

1 hour ago, Russel Coight said:

Have a look at this guy. He seems to get a pretty good sound using the amp designer in logic. It could very well have to do with your set up and recording. How are you listening back to everything? Through headphones? Computer speakers? Or proper monitors?

 

also FYI if you want you can find the waves plug ins on torrent websites and get them for free. 

That still sounds a little dull to me.  Like the palm mutes if you listen closely are pretty muffled and what I'm talking about.  It's definitely okay overall though.  I usually use headphones, switch between cheapish studio ones and then good earbuds to mix it up. 

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4 hours ago, Jan's Plan said:

I'm only recording guitars for the most part, acoustic and adding a bit of crunch after (attempting to).  I have a good mic, Perception 420, it honestly does wonders for vocals and decent on guitar.  But as soon as I get into the mix it's like 'hidden' and muffled or muddy and go through mind twists to try different variations, but anything that sounds good standalone sounds crappy in the mix. I don't have much problem with drums and bass at all.  I think I'm adding way too much EQ boosts or something, my graphs look like a mad scientist. But with them off it sounds dull as hell.

That still sounds a little dull to me.  Like the palm mutes if you listen closely are pretty muffled and what I'm talking about.  It's definitely okay overall though.  I usually use headphones, switch between cheapish studio ones and then good earbuds to mix it up. 

Could be some phase issues that are occurring from having a mic’d up acoustic being put through an emulated amp with a microphone? I don’t know though. I’ve never tried to re-amp an acoustic guitar personally so I’m not sure if that’s an issue that can come from that. Honestly I’ll take a look at your session if you want to upload and send it to me? I’ve got so much free time atm it’s crazy and would be happy to help.

If you wanna get serious about this then definitely get some monitors. You can’t mix properly through headphones. You don’t get a true left and right when panning. It’s always recommended to have proper monitors. 

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33 minutes ago, Russel Coight said:

Could be some phase issues that are occurring from having a mic’d up acoustic being put through an emulated amp with a microphone? I don’t know though. I’ve never tried to re-amp an acoustic guitar personally so I’m not sure if that’s an issue that can come from that. Honestly I’ll take a look at your session if you want to upload and send it to me? I’ve got so much free time atm it’s crazy and would be happy to help.

If you wanna get serious about this then definitely get some monitors. You can’t mix properly through headphones. You don’t get a true left and right when panning. It’s always recommended to have proper monitors. 

I will legit pay you if it sounds good..  How would I do this with Logic?  

I definitely has something to do with trying to amplify the mic'd acoustic once it's in the DAW.  In-person the guitar is great, playback on the mic sounds fine, once recorded it sounds muffled or hidden, any EQ gets it slightly better but covers up all else, any amp on it will make it pretty muddy.  I guess it sounds better with nothing on it in the mix, but the guitar itself sounds better with stuff on it.  Maybe I'm OCDing because I want it to sound like Jerry Finn.

The Sucffham S-Gear is pretty solid though I'm testing out right now.  I guess I can't decide if I want a clean sound or a pushed/crunch sound either. I'm a mess.

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16 minutes ago, Jan's Plan said:

I will legit pay you if it sounds good..  How would I do this with Logic?  

I definitely has something to do with trying to amplify the mic'd acoustic once it's in the DAW.  In-person the guitar is great, playback on the mic sounds fine, once recorded it sounds muffled or hidden, any EQ gets it slightly better but covers up all else, any amp on it will make it pretty muddy.  I guess it sounds better with nothing on it in the mix, but the guitar itself sounds better with stuff on it.  Maybe I'm OCDing because I want it to sound like Jerry Finn.

The Sucffham S-Gear is pretty solid though I'm testing out right now.  I guess I can't decide if I want a clean sound or a pushed/crunch sound either. I'm a mess.

In logic click file, save as and in the box that comes up save it as a package make sure it has audio files ticked and everything else you’ve used and it should make just one file which you can upload to google drive or whatever hosting site of your choice.

Id definitely say it’s most likely that’s the issue. Most people don’t try to get an amplified sound off of a micd up acoustic instrument. Normally you’d record the digital signal from an electric guitar and throw it through the amp designers so I’m not promising anything but I can definitely take a look.

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25 minutes ago, Russel Coight said:

In logic click file, save as and in the box that comes up save it as a package make sure it has audio files ticked and everything else you’ve used and it should make just one file which you can upload to google drive or whatever hosting site of your choice.

Id definitely say it’s most likely that’s the issue. Most people don’t try to get an amplified sound off of a micd up acoustic instrument. Normally you’d record the digital signal from an electric guitar and throw it through the amp designers so I’m not promising anything but I can definitely take a look.

Yeah digitally amping an acoustic is generally not a good shout. 

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13 minutes ago, Kay said:

Yeah digitally amping an acoustic is generally not a good shout. 

We're gonna make it work.

 

Does everyone just go clean through their amps then?  I find it ridiculously hard to get a good tone on a straight acoustic outside like a 'Feels Good Inc' sound when you take out all the low end, which obviously gives it no meat.  Maybe I'm being way too hard on myself by not just getting a new electric and using these stupid amp sims.  I love my Taylor though, I don't want to cheat on it

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29 minutes ago, Jan's Plan said:

We're gonna make it work.

 

Does everyone just go clean through their amps then?  I find it ridiculously hard to get a good tone on a straight acoustic outside like a 'Feels Good Inc' sound when you take out all the low end, which obviously gives it no meat.  Maybe I'm being way too hard on myself by not just getting a new electric and using these stupid amp sims.  I love my Taylor though, I don't want to cheat on it

Are you trying to make an acoustic guitar sound like a distorted electric guitar or am I understanding wrong?

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9 minutes ago, Russel Coight said:

Are you trying to make an acoustic guitar sound like a distorted electric guitar or am I understanding wrong?

Not really, just add more emphasis to it or a slight push.  It's just really dull overall so I tried adding an amp.

I anticipated a mic'd acoustic would sound better than a clean guitar but possibly not for mixing.

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15 minutes ago, Jan's Plan said:

Not really, just add more emphasis to it or a slight push.  It's just really dull overall so I tried adding an amp.

I anticipated a mic'd acoustic would sound better than a clean guitar but possibly not for mixing.

If you're going for an acoustic sound then a mic'd acoustic should definitely sound better as long as you mic'd it up properly. Where did you position the mic?

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