Jump to content
 

The Official Football Topic


Cuth

Recommended Posts

1 hour ago, Bucko said:

If Spurs win the league / champions league then I don't know how I will cope. Conte is a top top manager. Can't believe United didn't go all out for him. 

I think Ten Hag is a good manager, but the club need to back him and allow him to make mistakes and build his own team with his identity. If United aren't gonna sign quality players then at least give a few kids a chance, fans are better off accepting a couple of seasons of 7th to 10th and then allowing them to flourish.  

I'm quietly optimistic about this season but I feel so uncomfortable seeing Partey represent the club. 

Because Conte would have actually demanded money and promises to improve the team and would have probably walked within weeks if those promises were not kept?

Need to get rid of the old guard for sure, not really sure how helpful it is having Ferguson and Ronaldo hanging around like the Ghost of Christmas Past constantly reminding people of the good old days either...I honestly think it's doing none of the younger players any favours, as not good enough some of them might be - some of them are a lot better than the level they are showing now. 

I think Arsenal will do well this season - I think it is out of them and Chelsea for the final top 4 place. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, ...Dan... said:

Because Conte would have actually demanded money and promises to improve the team and would have probably walked within weeks if those promises were not kept?

Need to get rid of the old guard for sure, not really sure how helpful it is having Ferguson and Ronaldo hanging around like the Ghost of Christmas Past constantly reminding people of the good old days either...I honestly think it's doing none of the younger players any favours, as not good enough some of them might be - some of them are a lot better than the level they are showing now. 

I think Arsenal will do well this season - I think it is out of them and Chelsea for the final top 4 place. 

Yeah same, chelsea have made some odd signings and sales this window. They have no striker right now do they? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

19 hours ago, Roux said:

Surely now is the best time for the Glazers to sell? They'll get a huge offer - the longer they hold on the more the value will drop with this team/management. 

That thread is pretty damning...

If they do sell then I don't think they'd have any shortage of buyers, Chelsea had a lot of options when Abramovich sold up - although admittedly they are in a healthier position football wise than Man United are at the moment. 

image.png.107050b43fa07f4dc6621c792a5c3b33.png

So they've wiped off £8m in net debt since the take over in 2006 (after £0 debt before this)

And clearing this £8m of debt has cost £855m in interest payments....and they have still have the cheek to take dividend payments out every year. 

Fucking hell, what an absolute shit show. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They’re fucking criminals. Imagine letting these cunts come in and destroy Manchester United. It’s fucking disgusting and heads need to roll and then you look over to those money laundering cunts across the city and they’re pumping billions in for fun and sponsoring themselves the corrupt fucking cunts. Football is absolutely rotten. Not many decent owners about unfortunately. One thing I will say though about City is that they’re run incredibly well, I’ve learned now that obviously having unlimited money is a massive help but means fuck all if the clubs structure is a mess and that’s exactly what’s happened at united. We’ll always have money and compete money wise with the oil cunts but we’re running the club into the ground so even if we do eventually get bought out it means fuck all unless there’s a proper structure in place and we put football first. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ...Dan... said:

That thread is pretty damning...

If they do sell then I don't think they'd have any shortage of buyers, Chelsea had a lot of options when Abramovich sold up - although admittedly they are in a healthier position football wise than Man United are at the moment. 

image.png.107050b43fa07f4dc6621c792a5c3b33.png

So they've wiped off £8m in net debt since the take over in 2006 (after £0 debt before this)

And clearing this £8m of debt has cost £855m in interest payments....and they have still have the cheek to take dividend payments out every year. 

Fucking hell, what an absolute shit show. 

 

I'm not sure really what they gain by sticking around - they still sit on a hugely valuable asset, but one that is eroding day by day. They still have a huge American football team to own and don't really face the kind of backlash they face here. 

I still stick by the point i made a while ago that they spent (or wasted) more than £1bn on transfers alone- the answer can't be spend more money to make up for money wasted.  "They could have spent £2bn instead of £1bn" is kinda a daft argument to make in my opinion, it could be £10bn for all i care - none of it matters if its wasted. 

I'm looking to buy shares - and making Class B shares available is a small step in the right direction  - but it seems far to late to have any impact on the current state of the club. 

I was reading an article yesterday that there are not many 'clean' billionaires/millionaires around who want to be involved in football (as Abramovich found out). I really hope they don't cave in to Saudi blood money - while things can get better, things can always get much much much worse. 

In any case, the squad they have currently and have had for the last few years has massively underperformed. 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Btw is anyone watching Arsenal all or nothing? It’s not as good as the spurs one imo but arteta comes across well I think, but cringey at times but seems a good manager. I think they’re going to come close in the next few seasons, they had two games last season against Liverpool and City and they were excellent and they reminded me of those early Liverpool Klopp performances where you could just tell that Liverpool were coming. I kinda feel that way with Arsenal a bit, obviously they need to make those couple of world class signings Liverpool made with Alisson and Van Dijk

Link to comment
Share on other sites

33 minutes ago, Mr Blonde said:

Btw is anyone watching Arsenal all or nothing? It’s not as good as the spurs one imo but arteta comes across well I think, but cringey at times but seems a good manager. I think they’re going to come close in the next few seasons, they had two games last season against Liverpool and City and they were excellent and they reminded me of those early Liverpool Klopp performances where you could just tell that Liverpool were coming. I kinda feel that way with Arsenal a bit, obviously they need to make those couple of world class signings Liverpool made with Alisson and Van Dijk

I love his little whiteboard stories.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

45 minutes ago, Roux said:

I still stick by the point i made a while ago that they spent (or wasted) more than £1bn on transfers alone- the answer can't be spend more money to make up for money wasted.  "They could have spent £2bn instead of £1bn" is kinda a daft argument to make in my opinion, it could be £10bn for all i care - none of it matters if its wasted. 

It's still £855m that has been used to service £8m of a £600m loan, those figures are outrageous.

Clubs don't just spend money on players either. That money could have renovated an old and creaky Old Trafford as well as your dated training facilities that now are behind a lot of fairly average Premier League teams.

Them skimming off the top at the end of the Fergie era is also what started the rot, more money spent at that crucial time could have made a difference to the transition period of him leaving and where you are now. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ...Dan... said:

It's still £855m that has been used to service £8m of a £600m loan, those figures are outrageous.

Clubs don't just spend money on players either. That money could have renovated an old and creaky Old Trafford as well as your dated training facilities that now are behind a lot of fairly average Premier League teams.

Them skimming off the top at the end of the Fergie era is also what started the rot, more money spent at that crucial time could have made a difference to the transition period of him leaving and where you are now. 

I mean i think you should do some research - they have spent millions on training facilities, staff, OT, Women's team and other improvements. To ignore these facts is ignorant. They've also done this multiple times for different managers. £200m just for a refurb is not pocket money. 

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/man-utd-undertaking-carrington-training-ground-upgrade-project

https://frontofficesports.com/manchester-united-tap-notable-architecture-firms-for-stadium-redesign/  

 

They are also actively look at increasing the capacity/redevelopment of OT - which alone would cost a fortune because of the engineering involved. 

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/man-utd-appoints-masterplanners-for-old-trafford-stadium-redevelopment

https://www.90min.com/posts/man-utd-expected-to-focus-old-trafford-refurb-sir-bobby-charlton-stand-extension

The cost of doing both of these will be anywhere from £500m - £1.5bn going by reports. 

 

Your last sentence is clutching at straws to be honest -  can only really think of two seasons well before his retirement where United spent around £25m (09/10 & 10/11) the following two seasons under Fergie they shot right back up to around £70m (winning the league). And then another £70m under Moyes. The only two teams spending more in this period were City and Chelsea who have unlimited money. 

Ask yourself - has the £855m in interest payments stopped them breaking transfers records multiple times? We have 3 players in the top 5 transfers of all time. Highest wages in the league - 7 players out of 13 play for United! All post-Fergie era.

Our net spend in the last 10 years is the highest of any club in Europe!

Looks to me, quite clearly that the Glazers and managers, DoF's have had the money, but completely misused it. You think these idiots spending ANOTHER £1bn would have changed anything? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

23 hours ago, Roux said:

I mean i think you should do some research - they have spent millions on training facilities, staff, OT, Women's team and other improvements. To ignore these facts is ignorant. They've also done this multiple times for different managers. £200m just for a refurb is not pocket money. 

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/man-utd-undertaking-carrington-training-ground-upgrade-project

https://frontofficesports.com/manchester-united-tap-notable-architecture-firms-for-stadium-redesign/  

 

They are also actively look at increasing the capacity/redevelopment of OT - which alone would cost a fortune because of the engineering involved. 

https://www.manutd.com/en/news/detail/man-utd-appoints-masterplanners-for-old-trafford-stadium-redevelopment

https://www.90min.com/posts/man-utd-expected-to-focus-old-trafford-refurb-sir-bobby-charlton-stand-extension

The cost of doing both of these will be anywhere from £500m - £1.5bn going by reports. 

 

Your last sentence is clutching at straws to be honest -  can only really think of two seasons well before his retirement where United spent around £25m (09/10 & 10/11) the following two seasons under Fergie they shot right back up to around £70m (winning the league). And then another £70m under Moyes. The only two teams spending more in this period were City and Chelsea who have unlimited money. 

Ask yourself - has the £855m in interest payments stopped them breaking transfers records multiple times? We have 3 players in the top 5 transfers of all time. Highest wages in the league - 7 players out of 13 play for United! All post-Fergie era.

Our net spend in the last 10 years is the highest of any club in Europe!

Looks to me, quite clearly that the Glazers and managers, DoF's have had the money, but completely misused it. You think these idiots spending ANOTHER £1bn would have changed anything? 

Training facilities and stadium improvements? all I'm seeing is planning permission for improving the training complex and prepping/actively looking for a stadium redesign, hardly locked in is it? kind of proving my point really aren't you as well, sounds like they really didn't want to invest in these areas until they are left with no choice, this should have been done 10 years ago. I'm sure if you were still as self-sustaining and profitable as you were Pre Glazers then you'd have done it sooner. 

I mean another £1bn might not have changed it on the pitch but who said you needed to have spent another £1bn? might have just been nice to not be saddled in debt? no doubt the people in power have misused it but surely it would be better spunk £1bn up the wall and not be £600m in debt after paying £855 in interest payments than what you have done? 

09/10 & 10/11 were where it all started going wrong for sure, Fergie knew that team was ageing at the same time and signed Van Persie who basically won the league on his own. Poor signings for the last 3 to 4 years of the Fergie era and a load of the greats ageing/fading at the exact same time along with probably the greatest manager ever retiring. Sadly the people in power decided there was no need for a footballing structure in the boardroom, the fact Ed Woodward held that position so long is an absolute joke. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, ...Dan... said:

Training facilities and stadium improvements? all I'm seeing is planning permission for improving the training complex and prepping/actively looking for a stadium redesign, hardly locked in is it? kind of proving my point really aren't you as well, sounds like they really didn't want to invest in these areas until they are left with no choice, this should have been done 10 years ago. I'm sure if you were still as self-sustaining and profitable as you were Pre Glazers then you'd have done it sooner. 

I mean another £1bn might not have changed it on the pitch but who said you needed to have spent another £1bn? might have just been nice to not be saddled in debt? no doubt the people in power have misused it but surely it would be better spunk £1bn up the wall and not be £600m in debt after paying £855 in interest payments than what you have done? 

09/10 & 10/11 were where it all started going wrong for sure, Fergie knew that team was ageing at the same time and signed Van Persie who basically won the league on his own. Poor signings for the last 3 to 4 years of the Fergie era and a load of the greats ageing/fading at the exact same time along with probably the greatest manager ever retiring. Sadly the people in power decided there was no need for a footballing structure in the boardroom, the fact Ed Woodward held that position so long is an absolute joke. 

Did you not hear about the uproar regarding the disabled seating in the Stretford End last game then? They made changes to the stand and fucked up the disabled seating - so that will cost even more money to fix. Last season, the attendance was dropped to make changes to the stadium too - these are ongoing changes that have happened are are happening right now. The prep is for the stadium expansion or complete new stadium build - something that will take years to do. But United are on the path to doing both a redevelopment AND expansion/ new build - that is insane from a cost perspective. 

I'm not sure where you get this stuff from to be honest - its just not factual and based on your opinion or observations i think. They didn't have to invest in a Women's team - they did. £25m for a hospital wing at Carrington - they did + load it with millions of pounds worth of Toshiba gear. They didn't have to invest in OT renovations happening now - they did, They didn't have to spent £80m on Harry Maguire or Paul Pogba - they did. Then further invest more in the women's team again now - they did. The goalkeeper is one of many players on enormous £300k+ salary. What about investing huge sums in unknown kids like here & here? They okayed those deals when you could argue it was unnecessary. 

Quote

kind of proving my point really aren't you as well, sounds like they really didn't want to invest 

Think I've put this statement to bed! 

 

Whether they need to pay off the debt or not is another story in itself - seems to be manageable and the club seems financially stable despite being saddled with it - I'd rather they sort it out long term than sell United's soul like the naming rights to OT and increasing season ticket prices.

Your own data from those tweets you posted show debt now is much less than it was in 2010 - which backs up my claim that the debt is stable and manageable. Most clubs seem to run okay with debt because they have a long term plan - Chelsea had £2bn of it and Spurs close to £1bn. 

I think its time you let go out that Fergie era being a hindrance - we've all got past it. They've had more than enough money to not only compete with the sugar daddies (City/Chelsea) but surpass them in the net spend! You argument seems to suggest we can't compete because of the debt - but look at the data, they just keep spending more and more. While i hate to defend these incompetent owners/managers - facts are facts. 

Are these facilities state of the art compared to City or Spurs stadiums? Probably not, but they are absolutely fine compared to other clubs and some renovations will bring it closer to those examples. Did playing in older stadiums/training centres affect Chelsea or Liverpool in any way? Absolutely not. 

I think you have the idea that United play in some sort of bombed out World War II stadium and training complex or something - just because you've seen a leaky root pic on Twitter from 3 years ago! The stadium is still magnificent overall - the pitch and the stands etc, nothing you can do about the dated look except build a new one or cover it in plastic shit which is worse imo.

As good as it it is, City cant even fill their stadium. People go to games for the atmosphere - not because the cladding is shiny. One of the best stadiums ive ever been to was Craven Cottage - and that was a dump, but amazing atmosphere. 

While it agree with your last sentence - they seem to have a footballing structure in place now - but are still making the same mistakes. You could argue, that the current state with Ten Hag, Glazers, John Murtough etc is the worse its been in years - they come off as amateurs.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look Ten Hag has been naive as fuck. For me the players are a fucking disgrace there’s no doubting that and everyone can see it but Ten Hag has shot himself in the foot.

As soon as he made Maguire captain I was worried, he also apparently didn’t wanna work with rangnick who’s been right about the whole club, he said we needed open heart surgery and he was bang on. As soon as he said that and that we needed about 10 players through the door the suits shit themselves and got rid because we’re not a serious football club anymore. 
 

he also came in as said all players have a clean slate, another terrible decision but I have a feeling the club told him we can’t get rid of players because of wages etc and he was told to make the best of what he has. And he’s also targeting players from the Eredivise, but again I guarantee that’s because our scouting department is a joke, Ragnick couldn’t believe we hadn’t been scouting Nkunku so that should tell you everything you need to know about our scouts. So the club have completely fucked him over but he hasn’t helped himself, I for one hopes he resigns, I would fucking love it, the club on complete turmoil and the glazer rats under pressure to sell. I hope the club crashes and burns, anything to get those parasites out 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

25 minutes ago, Mr Blonde said:

Look Ten Hag has been naive as fuck. For me the players are a fucking disgrace there’s no doubting that and everyone can see it but Ten Hag has shot himself in the foot.

As soon as he made Maguire captain I was worried, he also apparently didn’t wanna work with rangnick who’s been right about the whole club, he said we needed open heart surgery and he was bang on. As soon as he said that and that we needed about 10 players through the door the suits shit themselves and got rid because we’re not a serious football club anymore. 
 

he also came in as said all players have a clean slate, another terrible decision but I have a feeling the club told him we can’t get rid of players because of wages etc and he was told to make the best of what he has. And he’s also targeting players from the Eredivise, but again I guarantee that’s because our scouting department is a joke, Ragnick couldn’t believe we hadn’t been scouting Nkunku so that should tell you everything you need to know about our scouts. So the club have completely fucked him over but he hasn’t helped himself, I for one hopes he resigns, I would fucking love it, the club on complete turmoil and the glazer rats under pressure to sell. I hope the club crashes and burns, anything to get those parasites out 

Yep - made the same mistakes as the last few idiots - definition of madness

-Donny benched
-Maguire captain
-De Gea kept instead of Henderson
-Playing out from the back with Maguire & De Gea is suicide
-No transfer plan whatsoever
-A midget for a central defender
-No substitutions when its clearly going wrong 
-Martial + others shouldn't be here
-Out of form player are rewarded for poor performances (i.e Fred & Fernandes)

 

The signs were all there during pre-season as i said at the time.  

 


 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...