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32 minutes ago, Osgod said:

I don't know what you want. I posted a lot of key areas directly referring to your argument showing United isn't number one and you either say these categories arn't important or say others where United are leading are more important...

Look, even if all the Chinese people who are United fans and can't have access to Social Media are following United right now you still wouldn't be number one. 

You posted 2 links where United were number one . Then a Link where Real Madrid were 14th. Already establish Real are 1st for trophies. Social Media thing has been debunked. Not the best way to back yourself up. 

What about fansbase? value? branding? Popularity? Tv viewership? Revenue? I mean United are first in every area - those are the most important! 

Well its not just China is it? Its other countries too - most of Asia - Africa. 

31 minutes ago, Osgod said:

So what!? When you don't lead in a category it isn't a big thing...makes sense. 

We don't lead in many areas i'm sure. I never said we were first in EVERY single area of a football club.

But when you define a clubs 'value' - i'm pretty sure memberships are way down the priority list - 200k members? its not really a big thing in this country - from the looks of it, not in Spain too or Madrid would alot higher. 

I was expecting sources that Madrid had the biggest fanbase/revenue/brand appeal/value/revenue etc. Trophies are a big aspect - but so are these areas too. 

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I'd say as a brand Man United are the biggest club in the world, I think that the Premier League being such a great product worldwide contributes highly to this too.

I'd care far more about winning top honours though rather than being the biggest brand with a load of cash as a fan though. 

 

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I'm so glad the not biggest club in the world has 9 champions leagues more than one that is then :) 

Thinking back to it idk why I even was involved to that stupid argument. The guy even posts the articles HE writes as a proof. I understand loving your team but living in an alternate reality when you aren't #1(or #2 or #3 or #4 for that matter) in what matters the most, football, but giving other stuff such significance to justify how you think your team is #1 overall is pathetic imo. As we said before we disagree in our reasons of picking the best team in the world I don't wanna keep this up Roux nor want to beef with you. I enjoy talking about football I've been watching the sport almost all my life more than any other sport.

Whatever anyone may say they can have their opinions but their history isn't 12 european tittles (the actual ones not stupid uefa cups or europa or whatever they call it) combined with 33 league tittles. So there's that always for me to back me up. And I'm glad I'm backing up my belief with actual football stats not stupid number of fans or television viewers or money. Because that's what I care about and always will. Football.

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Thats amazing, meanwhile everyone in the world is watching Man Utd matches (even in this shitty period). 

I was joking about my writing the article. ;D Dear god... this actually made me laugh. i genuinely don't think you get how big United are in the WORLD, not just Europe. United are the biggest sporting team period, even outside of football.  

At least you try and come up with some valid points - the other guy doesn't even read the discussion then blames me for being unable to have a discussion! 

 

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6 hours ago, Roux said:

At least you try and come up with some valid points - the other guy doesn't even read the discussion then blames me for being unable to have a discussion! 

 

Honestly...shut up with that bullshit. I brought a lot of arguments to the table and was interested in having a real discussion. Just because I didn't read through pages and pages of your United wankfest  in detail doesn't make my points invalid...I get it, United is the BIGGEST club in the world with the most fans, revenue, value,...all the other things like Social Media followers (which actually would represent the fanbase...but wait, the Chinese have no Internet...lol) members and titles don't count.

Let's leave it there...

 

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5 hours ago, Osgod said:

Honestly...shut up with that bullshit. I brought a lot of arguments to the table and was interested in having a real discussion. Just because I didn't read through pages and pages of your United wankfest  in detail doesn't make my points invalid...I get it, United is the BIGGEST club in the world with the most fans, revenue, value,...all the other things like Social Media followers (which actually would represent the fanbase...but wait, the Chinese have no Internet...lol) members and titles don't count.

Let's leave it there...

 

Its like reading the last few pages of a book and then claiming you know the whole story.

If someone is going to have a discussion and take the time to write/respond - at least have the decency to read it first, its how grown ups are able to have a debate. 

i'll let you keep thinking social media represent's a clubs entire fanbase, its cute. 

Yep - gotta get those 200k 'member's up to 250k so we can compete with the giants in the world of Sporting Lisbon. 

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15 hours ago, petros said:

I'm so glad the not biggest club in the world has 9 champions leagues more than one that is then :) 

Thinking back to it idk why I even was involved to that stupid argument. The guy even posts the articles HE writes as a proof. I understand loving your team but living in an alternate reality when you aren't #1(or #2 or #3 or #4 for that matter) in what matters the most, football, but giving other stuff such significance to justify how you think your team is #1 overall is pathetic imo. As we said before we disagree in our reasons of picking the best team in the world I don't wanna keep this up Roux nor want to beef with you. I enjoy talking about football I've been watching the sport almost all my life more than any other sport.

Whatever anyone may say they can have their opinions but their history isn't 12 european tittles (the actual ones not stupid uefa cups or europa or whatever they call it) combined with 33 league tittles. So there's that always for me to back me up. And I'm glad I'm backing up my belief with actual football stats not stupid number of fans or television viewers or money. Because that's what I care about and always will. Football.

Shouldn't you support Olympiakos or Panathaniakos or something?

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2 hours ago, Roux said:

Its like reading the last few pages of a book and then claiming you know the whole story.

If someone is going to have a discussion and take the time to write/respond - at least have the decency to read it first, its how grown ups are able to have a debate. 

i'll let you keep thinking social media represent's a clubs entire fanbase, its cute. 

Yep - gotta get those 200k 'member's up to 250k so we can compete with the giants in the world of Sporting Lisbon. 

I brought a lot of valid points to the table and I read a lot of you comments in order to be able to have an actual debate about it. But if thats your main argument, you can have it. Ridiculous...

My initial post was a summary to show why ManU isn't hands down the biggest club without debate. Again, it's for sure up there in the Top 5 without question. The problem is that you only value the information where United is leading instead of seeing the big picture - that's how grown ups are debating...paying attention not only to certain information.   

Where did I say that social media following represents the entire fan base!? Stop twisting my words. It's one indicators...and a pretty good one because if you're a fan of a club, you usually follow it...I understand your point with the Asian market but still the difference shouldn't be that big.

Members is also one piece of the puzzle. Don't you think that United, as the biggest club in the world, should perform better here? You said membership is not a big deal in the U.K., but United is followed all around the world.

 

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42 minutes ago, Osgod said:

I brought a lot of valid points to the table and I read a lot of you comments in order to be able to have an actual debate about it. But if thats your main argument, you can have it. Ridiculous...

My initial post was a summary to show why ManU isn't hands down the biggest club without debate. Again, it's for sure up there in the Top 5 without question. The problem is that you only value the information where United is leading instead of seeing the big picture - that's how grown ups are debating...paying attention not only to certain information.   

Where did I say that social media following represents the entire fan base!? Stop twisting my words. It's one indicators...and a pretty good one because if you're a fan of a club, you usually follow it...I understand your point with the Asian market but still the difference shouldn't be that big.

Members is also one piece of the puzzle. Don't you think that United, as the biggest club in the world, should perform better here? You said membership is not a big deal in the U.K., but United is followed all around the world.

 

Yes, you also said you didn't read alot of my posts either, so how can you have a proper debate if you pick and choose what to read?

I only value IMPORTANT information - all the vital areas, we happen to be number 1 in all of them. Sorry, but nobody gives a fuck about 200k 'registered' users - if it was so important Real Madrid would be alot higher than 14th. If United, Milan, Barca, Madrid cared about this then wouldn't they be well above Sporting Lisbon for example? Don't you think having the most shirt sales, most viewers watching our games, most visits to our website a month is a much better indication than 200k 'registered' fans?

9 hours ago, Osgod said:

Honestly...shut up with that bullshit. I brought a lot of arguments to the table and was interested in having a real discussion. Just because I didn't read through pages and pages of your United wankfest  in detail doesn't make my points invalid...I get it, United is the BIGGEST club in the world with the most fans, revenue, value,...all the other things like Social Media followers (which actually would represent the fanbase...but wait, the Chinese have no Internet...lol) members and titles don't count.

Let's leave it there...

You said it here - no, it doesn't represent the fanbase. Of course the difference is HUGE - our biggest fanbase happens to be the Asian market. So when you discount the biggest piece of the pie - don't you think that makes a significant difference? We possibly have more fans in Asia then Europe alone! Something close to 50% of our 690m fans are based in Asia. But yeah 50% isn't that big right.

Already said titles matter, but you'd be silly to think all these other things aren't just as important - fans make football, so they DO count. You can win a million trophies, but its means nothing if nobody gives a fuck about you around the world. 

 

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26 minutes ago, Roux said:

Yes, you also said you didn't read alot of my posts either, so how can you have a proper debate?

I only value IMPORTANT information - all the vital areas, we happen to be number 1 in all of them. Sorry, but nobody gives a fuck about 200k 'registered' users - if it was so important Real Madrid would be alot higher than 14th. Don't you think having the most shirt sales, most viewers watching our games, most visits to our website a month is a much better indication than 200k 'registered' fans?

You said it here - no, it doesn't represent the fanbase. Of course the difference is HUGE - our biggest fanbase happens to be the Asian market. So when you discount the biggest piece of the pie - don't you think that makes a significant difference? We possibly have more fans in Asia then Europe alone! Something close to 50% of our 690m fans are based in Asia. But yeah 50% isn't that big right.

 

 

I read a lot, believe it or not, and we discussed everything until now so I'm very well aware what your arguments are and what you're writing about. But seems like that's your main argument...

Look, that's ridiculous and makes you look like a tool. You don't lead in EVERY important category. I pointed out several categories which are important and where you are not leading - the most important one being Champions League titles.

And if the Spanish league is so mediocre, how comes that multiple Spanish clubs are dominating the European competition for the last few years...

Yeah, the internet/social media access is limited in Asia but it's not how you portray it here. The big cities, were most of the people live, are very well wired and therefore have access to the internet. 

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34 minutes ago, Osgod said:

I read a lot, believe it or not, and we discussed everything until now so I'm very well aware what your arguments are and what you're writing about. But seems like that's your main argument...

Look, that's ridiculous and makes you look like a tool. You don't lead in EVERY important category. I pointed out several categories which are important and where you are not leading - the most important one being Champions League titles.

And if the Spanish league is so mediocre, who comes that multiple Spanish clubs are dominating the Europeam competition for the last few years...

Yeah, the internet/social media access is limited in Asia but it's not how you portray it here. The big cities, were most of the people live, are very well wired and therefore have access to the internet. 

I never said EVERY category, i said EVERY important category (besides trophies). You failed to read that. 

If your talking about the biggest club - i want to know who has the most value, who has the most fans, who is the most marketable, who has the most fan interaction etc. Its really that simple.

You pointed out several categories where United were either first or above Madrid!!! Aside from trophies (already agreed with that) what categories are Real or any other team number 1 over United? The best you could find was some 'registered' nonsense and some social media thing which can't really count for obvious reasons.

Football is cycles, Italy rules for a few years, then England, then Spain etc its ALWAYS been this way. A few years ago Real Madrid won nothing for several years (2003-2008 i think?). But England is by far the most competitive league in the world. Every season Barca or Mardid will win the league or minimum get Champions League. Its embarrassing. 

Jesus Christ - its not about having limited internet access in Asia, its that Social Media is banned. I would have thought it was obvious? Again, you fail to read what i've written.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Websites_blocked_in_mainland_China

Oh and heres the reason why Benfica have the most 'registered' users - so you can see why it doesn't really matter to big clubs like Barca, United, Real etc:

Quote

The main purpose for becoming member of a club is to have discounts when buying tickets for home games, so the fact that teams like Bayern Munich, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Manchester  United... have fans in the four corners of the world is not of great help to them. Benfica, on the other hand, only has a small number of non-Portuguese fans, mainly from former Portuguese colonies in Africa, and that can help explain why Benfica's merchandising revenue is so low compared to the other clubs I mentioned, but to the number of paid-up members that doesn't come as a problem.

 

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You failed to read it...I wrote every important category as well.

Again, I never said that Real leads all important categories nor did I say that United isn't leading some of the important once. You don't seem to understand that I'm not arguing that Real is bigger than United - I argue that it's not so clear which team is the biggest because a lot of different things are important here. I understand that being a fanboy makes that difficult to understand.   

I interpreted it differently and it's still bullshit what you say because a) Certain social media platforms are only banned in China and North Korea, not in all of Asia b ) there are possibilities to still be able to access them, c) there exist other social media platforms in Asia which are very popular. Chinese for example also don't really use Google, they have their own search engine... and d) ManU is not the only club with fans in Asia. They have the most supporters, yes, but the other clubs are also affected by this. 

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No you didn't. Nothing about amount of fans, branding, shirt sales, global appeal? 

We are CLEARLY not only the biggest team in the world, the biggest SPORTING team in the world. I know its hard for you to grasp that - but value (which takes all these factors into account) pretty much confirms this. I even posted an article from Forbes that back me up - so clearly its not just me who thinks this, a giant media company supports this too.

Yes dopey - we know its possible to still access to those sites, and we know they use their own social media platform. BUT your source never included that information! And yes, nobody said Asian countries ONLY support Man Utd, sure they support other teams - But the biggest chuck  - 300m estimated fans support United. 

here is the proof:

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/world/2017-02/23/content_28327749.htm 

Its estimated United have more fans worldwide than both Barca and Madrid combined. 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/mikeozanian/2012/05/29/manchester-united-claims-to-have-659-million-supporters/#2ccfcf246307

Whether that's accurate or not - we don't know, but i can assume its a decent estimate. 

We are by FAR the biggest supported, most watched, richest and well branded sports team (not just football club)  on the planet. - i repeat this doesn't mean we are the most successful, this means we are the biggest OVERALL. 

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Congrats. You leading the ranking for biggest sports team this year. Last year it was the Dallas Cowboys, the years before it was Real Madrid. So you mean in 2015 Real was the biggest sports team in the world?

Who is "we"...lol. You have all the support of the millions and millions of United fans behind you...

You can even add these 300m fans and you still wouldn't be number one on social media.

I leave it there. The discussion leads nowhere. United is a big club, I never questioned that, and all the number one positions in meaningful and meaningless categories won't bring you more title - and that's what really counts in the end. 

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1 minute ago, Osgod said:

Congrats. You leading the ranking for biggest sports team this year. Last year it was the Dallas Cowboys, the years before it was Real Madrid. So you mean in 2015 Real was the biggest sports team in the world?

Who is "we"...lol. You have all the support of the millions and millions of United fans behind you...

You can even add these 300m fans and you still wouldn't be number one on social media.

I leave it there. The discussion leads nowhere. United is a big club, I never questioned that, and all the number one positions in meaningful and meaningless categories won't bring you more title - and that's what really counts in the end. 

 

Yeah i imagine you were at one point - but United have ruled that list for decades - dropping out the odd few years. As i already mentioned in a previous post. 

We as in 'United fans' - as in 'one of us'  not hard to comprehend...

100m existing social media fans + 300m Asian fans = 400m social media fans... dwarfing second place only by 250m!!! Maths isn't your strong point is it??? ;D

We do win titles... not for a few years... but neither did Madrid a few years ago, things change. 

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2 minutes ago, Roux said:

 

Yeah i imagine you were at one point - but United have ruled that list for decades - dropping out the odd few years. As i already mentioned in a previous post. 

We as in 'United fans' - as in 'one of us'  not hard to comprehend...

100m existing social media fans + 300m Asian fans = 400m social media fans... dwarfing second place only by 250m!!! Maths isn't your strong point is it??? ;D

We do win titles... not for a few years... but neither did Madrid a few years ago, things change. 

I'm not even a die-hard Real fan. I like them, but it's simply your "we are the biggest in every major category" attitude that made me laugh.   

I know what you meant with "we"...it was just funny that you all of a sudden wrote "we"...

Don't you think that the other clubs on the list would also gain some fans when you count Asian fans as well!? Again, not everybody supports your club...

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28 minutes ago, Osgod said:

I'm not even a die-hard Real fan. I like them, but it's simply your "we are the biggest in every major category" attitude that made me laugh.   

I know what you meant with "we"...it was just funny that you all of a sudden wrote "we"...

Don't you think that the other clubs on the list would also gain some fans when you count Asian fans as well!? Again, not everybody supports your club...

Fully aware that i guess its comes over 'fanboy-like'. But its quite simply true. I posted sources which i think overwhelmingly supports my theory. I genuinely think you have no idea how big United are in the world - its not even close imo. 

Believe me - i would love us to have won more European Cups etc and be the best team in the world right now like Real are. They are clearly the best right now. 

Yeah - Liverpool for example has a huge Asian following likewise Barca in South America, but nobody comes close to United out there. I've been to counties in Asia many times and they are United crazy out there. There's a reason why United go there for pre-season every year. Even Korea, when United signed Park Ji Sung - they went United-mad. Other teams are trying to break the market out there. 

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3 hours ago, ...Dan... said:

Shouldn't you support Olympiakos or Panathaniakos or something?

Haha none. These are the two biggest ones I support the third biggest one called AEK Athens. But as I said the corruption that one of the most disgusting clubs in the world, Olympiakos, has created in the last 20 years has made greek league unwatchable for me. Think that my team won a championship in 2008 and Olympiacos then made a complaint about a match they lost and they won it on paper to win the league. At that year my team had the most goals, the less conceded and more assits that anyone and was simply the best (we also had Rivaldo) and won olympiakos 4-0. No wonder they have lost only 2 championships the last 20 years.

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