"The Sum 41 Thread"

[Jane]

You seem to be trying to equate the disease of cancer with the controllable state of being obese.  I would never call someone with cancer a "sick shit of tumors" to their face or behind their back because that is a horrible horrible thing to say.  I would absolutely call an obese person a fat sack of crap behind their back, and possibly to their face if they're a total asshole.  I have no empathy for the obese, I'm sorry, but if you are obese, you have no one to blame but yourself, and possibly your parents if they fed you terribly as a child when you had little to no control of what you did.

 

Ever heard of things like e.g. thyroid hypofuction which can cause obesity?

[M!ke]

:'> Ever heard of things like e.g. thyroid hypofuction which can cause obesity?

 

No, care to explain what it is, and does it by all accounts still make one obese despite how healthy they eat and if they work out and play sports daily?  Also, is it something that occurs in people that have lived healthy lifestyles their whole life and by all accounts have always been fit?

[Melty Mark]

Well, that's nice. It was great having this conversation with you.

 

<3

[Speedo]

I have a glass or two of wine everynight as part of my way of unwinding, I don't have to have it, I enjoy it. Weekends I buy a case of beer for the weekend. Again, it doesn't bother me to not have it but I like to have it.  Does that make me an alcoholic? I don't believe it does. I don't think it's a problem. Smoking was a problem and I quit that.

[M!ke]

I have a glass or two of wine everynight as part of my way of unwinding, I don't have to have it, I enjoy it. Weekends I buy a case of beer for the weekend. Again, it doesn't bother me to not have it but I like to have it.  Does that make me an alcoholic? I don't believe it does. I don't think it's a problem. Smoking was a problem and I quit that.

 

Clearly not, sounds like you've got a hold on it.  You don't abuse it by any means.  I don't know if you're arguing with me here or not, but never were any of those things my points.  You don't abuse it by drinking a lot of it often, you drink often, but very little, and wine at that.  Furthermore I never said its impossible to quit either, in fact I said that it is always a choice, its just a choice that gets harder the more addicted you get.

[Speedo]

Way to make everything about you M!ke....

[Melty Mark]

I mean, I don't think so dude. It's nobody else's decision whether or not you are, but if you don't think so and most people wouldn't think so, whateva. Two drinks a day is a healthy level for a male, according to scientists out in this fine world.

[Ghent]

All Ghent meant was doing something in moderation makes it safe and ok...

 

In irreverent terms, yes, this was all I was saying. 

 

If you enjoy drinking, drink, just do it as safely and responsibly as possible. Have fun. 

[Speedo]

I was a scientist once...

[Ghent]

I mean, I don't think so dude. It's nobody else's decision whether or not you are, but if you don't think so and most people wouldn't think so, whateva. Two drinks a day is a healthy level for a male, according to scientists out in this fine world.

 

Two drinks a day makes you an alcoholic last I read.

[Speedo]

Hey, Ghent, funny seeing you here. What's your sign?

[supervic]

I agree supervic that many factors come into play. But I would argue that personal choice and circumstances carry more weight than genetics do. I wrote my thesis and published an article about alcoholism in the 19th century military. The rate of alcoholism was exponentially higher than in the general public (which was also much higher than today). This was due to circumstance more so than any predisposition to alcoholism.

 

If I worked for the railroad like my alcoholic great grandfather, or was in a heartbreaking divorce like my other alcoholic great grandfather, I would be much more prone to becoming an alcoholic. They weren't drinking for fun in a casual middle class environment like I do.

 

 

Yeah, I don't think we're too far apart on the issue.

 

I wouldn't say that personal choice and circumstances carry MORE weight.. but I can see how you would think of that way as a counter-reaction to the "addiction is biology" perspective that is prominent today. 

 

If push comes to shove, everyone has to pick a side - nature vs. nurture. But it's a fruitless debate because it is a false dichotomy. They are too intertwined, that it becomes a circular debate. I don't think anyone is doing a good work up of the situation if you pick a side, because all it does is create arguments and it alienates the other side of the issue so it doesn't get help. If you pick the genetics side, then environmental factors like poverty, stress, trauma are not being adequately addressed. If you pick the environmental side, then the issue of family history, medical/pharmacological treatments get ignored and there can be other bad consequences as well. 

 

So really, where is the point to trying to pick one side or the other? Life is not black and white, and an issue as complicated as alcohol and addictions is too multi-faceted to simplify it that way. 

[Jane]

No, care to explain what it is, and does it by all accounts still make one obese despite how healthy they eat and if they work out and play sports daily?  Also, is it something that occurs in people that have lived healthy lifestyles their whole life and by all accounts have always been fit?

 

It's a metabolic dysfunction. The opposite also exists, these people get skinny. You can google this yourself.

[Ghent]

I completely agree vic. good post

 

I think most of this was a knee jerk reaction from Beth and her crony Kyle (   ) reading too far into what I said for the sake of arguing with me.

[MSandt]

If a person is "genetically predisposed" to alcoholism, then don't fucking drink. Drinking is 100% a choice, 0% genes.

 

I guess pedophiles too are not fully responsible for their actions since they too are genetically predisposed to finding children sexually attractive.

['Ah...Lex']

You seem to be trying to equate the disease of cancer with the controllable state of being obese.  I would never call someone with cancer a "sick shit of tumors" to their face or behind their back because that is a horrible horrible thing to say.  I would absolutely call an obese person a fat sack of crap behind their back, and possibly to their face if they're a total asshole.  I have no empathy for the obese, I'm sorry, but if you are obese, you have no one to blame but yourself, and possibly your parents if they fed you terribly as a child when you had little to no control of what you did.

 

Mike you've posted a lot of strange things, but this, of all of them, has to be the most outrageous. What if somebody was obese genetically? Or perhaps had a biological malfunction - I won't pretend that I can reel off a specific disease - but certainly something that causes people to have less control over their size. How would you feel about them?

 

Conversely, what about somebody who's cancer was self-inflicted? Smoking is the classic example here. Would it be a horrible thing to say then?

 

You have no empathy for the obese, it seems, because you're very much fascinated with yourself. Hence the reason why so much of your evidence here has, as Kyle rightly pointed out, anecdotal. The wild and general assumption that the parents fed their child 'terribly' is a harmful stereotype. Have you ever even considered that that fat man there, that fat man was hit by a drunk driver when he was 11, and developed an eating disorder that caused him to grow massively in size? Unlikely, but still possible.

 

Your assumptions about people are very simple and uneducated.

 

 

If a person is "genetically predisposed" to alcoholism, then don't fucking drink. Drinking is 100% a choice, 0% genes.

 

I guess pedophiles too are not fully responsible for their actions since they too are genetically predisposed to finding children sexually attractive.

 

Great, so now we're equating alcoholics and pedophiles. This board harbours some real stone age characters.

 

I'm just going to come right out and ask you if you feel like you're responsible for what you're sexually attracted to? Blondes? Brunettes? Big girls? Girls with large breasts? Men with thick, defined penises? What is it?

 

Whatever it is, do you feel it's a choice? Probably not. You probably just like what ya like. 

 

Now consider pedophiles. Do they have a choice? Well yes of course, there are numbers in there that have 'chosen' to have relations with underage partners. These men are sick, there can be no denying it.

 

But of course, consider the torture of only being sexually attracted to children? I feel men and women like that need help.

 

But of course, we are merely human. As all have said, it's not simply nature, but nurture too, so many factors, all that biology. I'll say at this point that I was somewhat playing devil's advocate, but I still think it's something to consider.

[Knapppers]

jeesus this thread really took off.  I will never understand alcoholics.  I work with people who ill go to the bar with after work at the hotel and they will just pound drinks and then wake up the next morning feeling like shit and then do it all over again? I just never understand why.  One of my best friends could be considered an alcoholic, hes constantly trying to get me to go drinking with him on the weekends and getting super drunk.  The only reason I started even drinking at partys and stuff was because of him.  I love the effects of drinking too, being a pretty shy quiet person, it loosens me up and i become very more social and upbeat.  With that being said i could never have another drop of alchohol again and not miss i one bit.  I think the only reason people drink a ton like that is because they have issues with themselves and like the way they are when theyre drunk better.  Why not get a hobby that you cant be drunk or hungover for.  Ive turned down many a nights of going drinking because id rather get up early the next day and go mountain biking or ride some moto.  Like i said i will never be able to understand alcoholics, I think theyre losers and I look down on them.  Sorry if that offends some people but its honestly the way I feel.  Maybe it is due to a chemical thing in the body that theyre like that but I have no idea

[Ghent]

But it's genetic!!!! Leave us alone!!!

[fElon]

If a person is "genetically predisposed" to alcoholism, then don't fucking drink. Drinking is 100% a choice, 0% genes.

 

I guess pedophiles too are not fully responsible for their actions since they too are genetically predisposed to finding children sexually attractive.

 

Ouch you bring up a good and uncomfortable point for the people on here who will say that alcoholism is not 100% choice. But you are wrong on both counts. Pedophiles are the most vile human beings in society. But truth be told, and people never want to hear this, like alcoholism, that is also a sickness that isn't entirely the person's fault.

 

Many pedo's were abused as children themselves and are totally screwed up. Is that totally their fault? Nope.

[Ghent]

What about the ones that weren't sexually abused?