_Kyle_ Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 11 minutes ago, M!ke said: Bands like New Found Glory and those that have followed have only tried to emulate what blink did, but in my opinion, more often than not, fail. What? Do you mean music wise? When did blink ever have hardcore style breakdowns or gang vocals? NFG was very much east coast (Lifetime, Lifetime, Lifetime) and Blink was very much west coast punk influenced (descendents, descendents, descendents). If you mean image wise, I guess? I wouldn't call spikey hair and short's blink influence as much as just punk rock in the late 90s (honestly Offspring have more claim to that than Blink) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kyle_ Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 4 minutes ago, Ghent said: The very definition of "pioneering" involves being the first to open avenues for others to explore. If Tom wasn't the first to invent it, he wasn't a pioneer of it. This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppyKillingMachine Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 5 minutes ago, Ghent said: The very definition of "pioneering" involves being the first to open avenues for others to explore. If Tom wasn't the first to invent it, he wasn't a pioneer of it. But if that's the definition of pioneering, name one guitarist who's ever pioneered anything? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpen5311 Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, BigOilyMenInBlack said: But if that's the definition of pioneering, name one guitarist who's ever pioneered anything? This kid named Marty in 1955 who played guitar like no one had ever heard before, paved the way for guitarists such as Chuck Berry who pretty much straight up stole this kids sound. There are rumors that Chucks cousin, Marvin, tipped him off on this but there are no sources to back that claim up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 7 minutes ago, BigOilyMenInBlack said: But if that's the definition of pioneering, name one guitarist who's ever pioneered anything? Clarence Fender? Kizart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M!ke Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 10 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said: What? Do you mean music wise? When did blink ever have hardcore style breakdowns or gang vocals? NFG was very much east coast (Lifetime, Lifetime, Lifetime) and Blink was very much west coast punk influenced (descendents, descendents, descendents). If you mean image wise, I guess? I wouldn't call spikey hair and short's blink influence as much as just punk rock in the late 90s (honestly Offspring have more claim to that than Blink) I was just speaking in generalities of all the pop-punk bands that followed in the wake of blink's successful breakout with Enema. Specifically I mentioned New Found Glory because Clarke was talking about them specifically, not really pointing to them as if they're the most obvious band to point to (I don't think they are that) to follow Enema and copy that style. I mean they definitely did to an extent, but they're not nearly as blatant as other bands. Awfully defensive about NFG there though, never understood what people saw in that band honestly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kyle_ Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 39 minutes ago, Clarke said: I'll say it again. Tom took guitar ideas from his scene and spearheaded them into the pop world in a new and successful way. Kyle, I'm not talking about being the first pop band to have a "punk sound", I'm talking about being the first to incorporate specific guitar elements into the mainstream at blink's magnitude. The last time I checked, the reason people have a feud with Green Day is that they are typically power-chord anthems that don't have the catchy guitar riffs that blink has thrived off of. Of course they're popular though. Green Day pioneered many other things. By this definition, that can apply to anybody and every band that made it big. Specific guitar elements is just generic enough that really it doesn't mean anything. This is like the worst bullshit college essay that doesn't prove anything I've ever read. You're not saying anything. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghent Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, BigOilyMenInBlack said: But if that's the definition of pioneering, name one guitarist who's ever pioneered anything? I could name hundreds of them? I'm not trying to discredit Tom here. The dude was amazing in his day and did some fucking awesome things that changed my life...but to call him a pioneer of anything on the guitar is a major stretch and a tombot thing to say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kyle_ Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Cpen5311 said: This kid named Marty in 1955 who played guitar like no one had ever heard before, paved the way for guitarists such as Chuck Berry who pretty much straight up stole this kids sound. There are rumors that Chucks cousin, Marvin, tipped him off on this but there are no sources to back that claim up. Exactly! That guy tore up The Enchantment Under The Sea Dance. Then Chuck fucking stole his shit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kyle_ Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, M!ke said: I was just speaking in generalities of all the pop-punk bands that followed in the wake of blink's successful breakout with Enema. Specifically I mentioned New Found Glory because Clarke was talking about them specifically, not really pointing to them as if they're the most obvious band to point to (I don't think they are that) to follow Enema and copy that style. I mean they definitely did to an extent, but they're not nearly as blatant as other bands. Ah, Well, same label as Blink, so yeah I can see a marketing thing there. But in terms of pop-punk, the two bands had different influences and end products (imo). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Speedo Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 Some people are mistaking great song writing ability for pioneering. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kyle_ Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 2 minutes ago, Clarke said: Then read back a page or 2. "Specific guitar elements" will mean something, once you are on the same page with what I'm referring to. By the way Ghent, your definition of pioneering isn't "the" definition. The direction I'm going with this is that Tom was the one who found a way to spearhead these guitar elements into the pop scene. Oh I did. But you just stated that Tom made simple, catchy, songs with minor changes. When in reality yeah, but literally thousands, maybe even millions of guitarist did that already to varying degrees of success. There's nothing pioneering about his guitar playing. That would be like saying Jack White is a pioneer of blues rock because he got popular with it 15 years ago and made a career out of it. He's not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppyKillingMachine Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 6 minutes ago, Ghent said: I could name hundreds of them? I'm not trying to discredit Tom here. The dude was amazing in his day and did some fucking awesome things that changed my life...but to call him a pioneer of anything on the guitar is a major stretch and a tombot thing to say. You can name hundreds of guitarists who have invented something utterly unique? Name one. Humor me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, BigOilyMenInBlack said: You can name hundreds of guitarists who have invented something utterly unique? Name one. Humor me. Not difficult at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kyle_ Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/ten-famous-guitar-pioneers.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpen5311 Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 8 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said: Exactly! That guy tore up The Enchantment Under The Sea Dance. Then Chuck fucking stole his shit. Stealin' from the white man. How typical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lauren Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 1 minute ago, _Kyle_ said: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/ten-famous-guitar-pioneers.html Roasted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
013bam Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 didn't read all of it, but i think you guys miss out on one point. They partially blew up because a lot of teens thought they were a boyband Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Kyle_ Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 they made great videos with commercial appeal, so MTV launched and pushed them. not that hard to figure out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PuppyKillingMachine Posted June 23, 2016 Report Share Posted June 23, 2016 3 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said: http://www.dummies.com/how-to/content/ten-famous-guitar-pioneers.html None of these guitarists invented anything though. Certainly not the mainstream ones, anyway. I would agree it's more than fair to call someone like Eddie Van Halen a "pioneer," but not because he invented finger tapping or whammy barring. He didn't invent anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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