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3 hours ago, Olidamus said:

I don't believe you can learn to write great songs.

I think that you can. I don't think it's easy, but I think it is definitely something you learn. Depends on what you consider "great" though.

For example, I love blink's whole discography (even if their post-reunion releases have been underwhelming), so while I personally think that even their earliest stuff is "great", I think an argument could be made that blink gradually learned how to write great songs over time. I mean, there are fans who don't like Buddha or Cheshire Cat but love what came later. To them, blink learned how to write good music years into their career.

I haven't written a song in years, but back in high school when I was a kid in a band who idolized blink-182 and wanted to play in a band for the rest of my life, I know that the songs I wrote definitely got "better" over time. The earliest stuff I wrote was terrible, but the more I wrote, the better I got. I don't think I ever wrote "great" music, but I do know I was improving the more I did it.

You're right that it's not a step-by-step process like learning to play the guitar. There's no set formula for how to do it, but I still think it is something that is learned. Just in a different way.

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Maybe the comparison would be much better set by pairing songwriting with poetry/novel writing or even painting.

I mean, playing an instrument is a technical skill. You learn to do it, and you can base your entire experience on it by copying what others do without learning music, or without being a songwriter. Also happens with writing and painting. You know that to write a novel, you have to get an initial point, then a developing of the story to get the plot on, and finally you have to unveil the shit in some way or another, no matter if it ends well, or bad. That's something that anybody can do, aside of the quality of the text. Same with painting. But to be a real artist -fuck, I hate the word since Tom over used it-, you have to get something that others don't have. Creating a good story, a good song or a good painting is a different story. You can be an amateur youtube-ish player, you can be a musician, and you can be an artist (separate, or all at the same time).

I'm not denying the fact that it seems like some people have come with a kind of method to create hit songs in the most commercial circuit, but I don't think how that can be the same type of songwriting that the one we talk about.

I agree with the fact that, actually, to create an original thing is the most difficult part. It's like engineers vs. mechanics type of thing. The ones who invent and design the shit to make it as perfect as it can be, to find the most ideal materials to work with, and the ones that build them up based on that.

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People are definitely born with certain talents that come very naturally to them that others don't have. For example, I like to sing and I like to write music and sing my own songs, but singing is extremely hard for me. I'm terrible at it and though I have made small improvements over the years, it's a constant struggle. Then there are people who can sing amazingly and they've never had to practice or put any effort into it in their entire life. Natural talent definitely plays a part in this stuff.

But I still think most of this stuff is able to be learned. I'm sure if I went all out and started becoming very serious about singing, and dedicated a lot of time to it, I could get good at it. Aside from natural talent which gives certain people a lucky advantage, I think that time is really the biggest factor in being able to learn this kind of thing. The more time you put into writing music, the better you are going to get. I honestly just don't think I ever had the drive to dedicate so much time to music, even though I thought that was what I wanted to do for the rest of my life. I loved music and I had so much fun with it, but I didn't put the time into really honing my skills. This is why after ten years I'm still mostly playing blink-182 songs on the guitar, and this is why after playing piano for almost twenty years I still can barely read sheet music.

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Then I would pay to learn how to write records like Pet Sounds, hahaha.

I think an artists, over the years, can develop his/her initial talent, but I don't really see anyone to learn the actual talent. There's no two Dali, not two Lennon, no two Keith Richards... you find copies of them, or people who were influenced by them, but that's all. Anyways, I think I get your point.

Edit: I think I just misunderstood your point. And I want to correct myself, because I think what I said has nothing to do with what you were saying, hahha. I maintain what I said, but I do agree on the fact that you can learn to write 'good' songs, as long as you, being a musician, know how to use your musicianship and, maybe, talent, to do that.

Sorry!

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40 minutes ago, Ghost said:

Then I would pay to learn how to write records like Pet Sounds, hahaha.

I think an artists, over the years, can develop his/her initial talent, but I don't really see anyone to learn the actual talent. There's no two Dali, not two Lennon, no two Keith Richards... you find copies of them, or people who were influenced by them, but that's all. Anyways, I think I get your point.

Edit: I think I just misunderstood your point. And I want to correct myself, because I think what I said has nothing to do with what you were saying, hahha. I maintain what I said, but I do agree on the fact that you can learn to write 'good' songs, as long as you, being a musician, know how to use your musicianship and, maybe, talent, to do that.

Sorry!

I agree with this. No two people are going to be exactly the same, but I think you can develop and learn your own talents with time! You'll never be exactly like another artist, but you don't have to be.

 

38 minutes ago, Ghent's Brother said:

Whaaat how is that even possible?

Took lessons for six years when I was a kid, I hated it, so I never practiced and never bothered to learn to read music properly. After I quit lessons and I was no longer being forced to play the instrument, I realized that I actually kind of like the piano! I've still never put any real effort into learning to read sheet music (I can kind of read it, but painfully slowly), I mostly just play by ear, but sometimes I will take the time to learn a song with sheet music, it just takes forever because I suck at reading it.

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28 minutes ago, Cheerios4u98 said:

Took lessons for six years when I was a kid, I hated it, so I never practiced and never bothered to learn to read music properly. After I quit lessons and I was no longer being forced to play the instrument, I realized that I actually kind of like the piano! I've still never put any real effort into learning to read sheet music (I can kind of read it, but painfully slowly), I mostly just play by ear, but sometimes I will take the time to learn a song with sheet music, it just takes forever because I suck at reading it.

Ah that makes sense then. I love it, but never took any lessons and totally wish that I did. Funny how that works. 

I can read the sheets just fine, but my problem is the stuff I want to play is way too hard. 

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5 minutes ago, Ghent's Brother said:

Ah that makes sense then. I love it, but never took any lessons and totally wish that I did. Funny how that works. 

I can read the sheets just fine, but my problem is the stuff I want to play is way too hard. 

I really just need to take some time maybe this summer to learn to read sheets better. I feel severely limited in my piano skills because of that handicap.

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22 minutes ago, Ghent's Brother said:

Ah that makes sense then. I love it, but never took any lessons and totally wish that I did. Funny how that works. 

I can read the sheets just fine, but my problem is the stuff I want to play is way too hard. 

yo dude, "Three Blind Mice" isn't very hard.

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28 minutes ago, Cheerios4u98 said:

I really just need to take some time maybe this summer to learn to read sheets better. I feel severely limited in my piano skills because of that handicap.

Just gotta keep at it. It's more or less just straight-up memorization.

My handicap is that my hands are retarded and can't do different independent rhythms at the same time. 

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13 minutes ago, Ghent's Brother said:

Just gotta keep at it. It's more or less just straight-up memorization.

My handicap is that my hands are retarded and can't do different independent rhythms at the same time. 

I can play fairly complicated stuff with my right hand, but not so much with my left. Honestly I hardly ever practice or play the piano because I'm away from home at school for most of the year, and I don't have a piano to play here. One of my favorite things about going home is having a piano to play whenever I feel like it. If I had easier access to a piano (and I want a real piano, I can't stand playing on the keep electronic keyboards with the super light-weight plastic keys. It just feels wrong) and put more time into it I know I could improve fairly quickly. I go through spurts every couple of years where I play the piano a lot and in those short time periods I always see improvement much faster than I expect to. But since I don't have access to a piano most of the year I often lose whatever added level of talent I gain from those spurts. In the future whenever I get to the point of owning my own house I'm definitely going to have to have a piano in it.

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Once upon a time I could kinda sorta play the opening to Carousel. Also the repetitive opening to WMAA. People recognized it but I could only ever play the openings and then I sat there repeating it like an asshole. Oh and I figured out Seven Nation Army. But I haven't touched a guitar in years unless I'm moving my kid's guitar out of the way. 

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