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Was John Feldmann necessary to push blink back into the mainstream?


DudeRanch182

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49 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

That article is interesting because they paint a picture of Blink 182 losing their popularity, but when you look at the fact, they were selling better than majority of acts (Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Nick Jonas, etc) around that time. They were doing relatively well considering. California selling better (by what, 100k?) is basically just marketing and promotion pushes that Interscope never was able to give the Neighborhoods era.

All the California album cycle did was make Blink 182 a nostalgia act in my eyes. It solidified it. The band is more or less in their middle age crisis at the moment.

I think it's tough to compare sales now because CA is outpacing Neighborhoods by what is probably close to 200k now in 20% of the time. I guess we'll have to wait to see how it ages. 

As far as the middle age crisis point is concerned, I think that's definitely a valid stance to take and is probably commonly held by a decent group of fans. I'm curious:

1) What do you think they will do next?

2) What do you think they should do next?

 

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I don't think Feldmann being the producer was necessary to Blink regaining popularity (they could've done it with someone else), but if there was one good thing that he did, it was helping the band in that regard. I'm not a big fan of his production styles (although I did like both California and the deluxe edition), but he still certainly helped them to make music that had an increased mainstream appeal. I think that California's commercial success has put the band in a position where they can better justify taking some more risks and experimenting a bit on the next record. 

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49 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

That article is interesting because they paint a picture of Blink 182 losing their popularity, but when you look at the fact, they were selling better than majority of acts (Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Nick Jonas, etc) around that time. They were doing relatively well considering. California selling better (by what, 100k?) is basically just marketing and promotion pushes that Interscope never was able to give the Neighborhoods era.

All the California album cycle did was make Blink 182 a nostalgia act in my eyes. It solidified it. The band is more or less in their middle age crisis at the moment.

Not sure that the middle life crisis thing can be just directed at blink with Matt & Feldman though. Tom has been writing a lot of songs in recent years that are about his youth and stuff. But at least with Tom, you can tell he's honest in his songwriting compared to what blink are doing ATM. He at least sings about stuff in a past, remember the good old days tense. Blink are singing stuff as if they're still in those good old days.

But I agree, California seems to be more or less just as successful as Neighborhoods despite it selling a bit more than Neighborhoods. Up All Night had a similar reception to Bored to Death, and why wouldn't it? It was kinda hyped because it was the comeback song. California has way better marketing and I honestly think if Neighborhoods had that, it would've sold just as many records, if not more.

Considering the amount of single worthy songs on California, it should be selling way more IMO. I'm still surprised Sober hasn't caught on although I hate the song.

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4 hours ago, Nosferatu said:

None of the songs are experimental to me. Experimental to me is a sound I've never really heard before, or a sound I've never heard in pop punk before at least, since it'll be harder and harder to be more original these days. Don't Mean Anything still sounds like a generic pop punk Simple Plan styled song despite the minor key. 6/8 is different for blink but it sounds no different to what Sum 41 did on Chuck or Screaming Bloody Murder IMO. Bottom of the Ocean is slightly different for blink but I've got no idea if the song is trying to sound like Fall Out Boy or +44.

Still, I love this song even if I do hear FOB resemblances. And it would fit in with blink's darker +44ish sound from the past 10 years I think so to me it sounds honest. I hope blink do more of this sound. I'm a big fan of blink when they're being kinda electronic. Los Angeles, Bottom of the Ocean and Fighting the Gravity. That kinda sound. Still, I don't want a full album of that though. 2-3 songs is enough.

Don't think anyone should be calling the deluxe experimental though. all of it sounds like modern generic pop punk stuff almost. It suffers from the same stuff as the main California album and it's also no different to the main album. Blink had more experimenting on Cheshire Cat with Cacophany.

I think it's definitely not experimental. But, coming from a cynical pov, I'm kind of looking for any reason to be hopeful going forward. And, in the very least and although it may be by a small margin, it is different from CA imo. 

I'm curious though. To get a better idea of where you're coming from, where on the experimental spectrum would you place Neighborhoods, DED and WYHSB? 

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7 minutes ago, DudeRanch182 said:

I think it's tough to compare sales now because CA is outpacing Neighborhoods by what is probably close to 200k now in 20% of the time. I guess we'll have to wait to see how it ages. 

As far as the middle age crisis point is concerned, I think that's definitely a valid stance to take and is probably commonly held by a decent group of fans. I'm curious:

1) What do you think they will do next?

2) What do you think they should do next?

It's hard to say because Neighborhoods doesn't really include digital plays, whereas California does.

1. I think they will probably return with California Part 2. The DX version of California remains to me the lowest part of their discography and proved they are treading water in terms of ideas of what Blink 182 should and could be. I think the next album will be basically a victory lap of what we heard there.

2. Get Feldmann out and work on the guitar work. Hash out songs for months and then go in to record and see how that goes. Throw in a "single" to make sure you have something to sell and make an interesting record. I would love a (+44) meets Crimson era Alkalineblink record.

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1 hour ago, _Kyle_ said:

That article is interesting because they paint a picture of Blink 182 losing their popularity, but when you look at the fact, they were selling better than majority of acts (Paul McCartney, Bob Dylan, Nick Jonas, etc) around that time. They were doing relatively well considering. California selling better (by what, 100k?) is basically just marketing and promotion pushes that Interscope never was able to give the Neighborhoods era.

All the California album cycle did was make Blink 182 a nostalgia act in my eyes. It solidified it. The band is more or less in their middle age crisis at the moment.

bingo. this band squandered their popularity with the inactivity of the reunion years

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2 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

It's hard to say because Neighborhoods doesn't really include digital plays, whereas California does.

1. I think they will probably return with California Part 2. The DX version of California remains to me the lowest part of their discography and proved they are treading water in terms of ideas of what Blink 182 should and could be. I think the next album will be basically a victory lap of what we heard there.

2. Get Feldmann out and work on the guitar work. Hash out songs for months and then go in to record and see how that goes. Throw in a "single" to make sure you have something to sell and make an interesting record. I would love a (+44) meets Crimson era Alkalineblink record.

Regarding #2, I think that would be an awesome record to hear. It's no secret they have severely underutilized Skiba. 

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22 minutes ago, DudeRanch182 said:

I think it's definitely not experimental. But, coming from a cynical pov, I'm kind of looking for any reason to be hopeful going forward. And, in the very least and although it may be by a small margin, it is different from CA imo. 

I'm curious though. To get a better idea of where you're coming from, where on the experimental spectrum would you place Neighborhoods, DED and WYHSB? 

I don't think Neighborhoods is too experimental. No way near as weird or different as the smiley face album but it's definitely different. Fighting the Gravity, Snake Charmer (especially in the intro and the outro) and Ghost on the Dance Floor I'd say are the most experimental ones. Maybe Kaleidoscope is another one that's a bit out there as well. But the rest are just kinda pop punk with AVA/+44/BCR vibes. We have to remember that a lot of blink fans felt Neighborhoods was too safe after the release of it (funny I know, cause looking back on it, you'd think it's the most experimental thing they've ever done based on these boards).

DED just continues that sound though and WYHSB is pretty generic sounding when it comes to the more guitar oriented stuff. But it's a very honest album, which is why I love it with some experimental elements added in. Weatherman, Little Death, Make You Smile, Lillian (which is a 6/8 song) are all songs I'd say are experimental but the rest is just your generic indie rock/alt rock stuff but in that blink/+44 vibe way with some pop punk added in parts.

I'd like to say more songs are experimental but a lot of blink stuff from 2011 and onwards sounds like +44 and AVA. I can't call it experimental if they're keeping with a similar sound they had been doing on the albums they've worked on previously (side projects included), but they were pushing themselves to be more different still, which you can't hear on any of the California stuff, deluxe included IMO.

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DED reminds me of the b-sides of TOYPAJ in that they get the job done, but are pretty standard seemingly. Really everything since they've reunited hasn't been too impressive in terms of sound and production. I think they need to labor over some of this stuff more.

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I just listened to Neighborhoods again the other day. The production and ideas are a lot better than California. The most noticeable difference is the drums are punchy and have balls and the guitar sounds real and not plastic.

I don't mind Feldmann's involvement in terms of songwriting or giving ideas/motivating them. Just keep him away from the production side of things, his style is awful. 

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Bored To Death was absolutely massive, nobody can argue that. It was their biggest hit in a decade. For that alone, Feldmann was absolutely necessary to get them back in the mainstream. And I fucking love that song, shoutout to Feldy for that one. I do think that his style and sound wear VERY thin over an entire album though, let alone two albums.

In the grand scheme of things I don't think he's necessary or even helpful for making a good album, but he definitely did his job right with Bored To Death.

Also, in regards to the marketing and media and stuff, that was SOOO huge in helping the band get back on top this time around, especially in contrast with Neighborhoods, and I do wonder how much Feldmann had to do with that. Not in a direct way, but with the record label. I wouldn't be surprised if the money people figured "this will be worth the money we put into it, Feldmann has been working with pop radio acts for years so we know we can trust him to make hits, the investment on all this marketing will pay off in the end"

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4 hours ago, Kay said:

there's a very small percentage of average listeners who would know who 'the guy' is, and he isn't the only one who can badly produce a glossy sounding record. He himself has nothing to do with marketing, it's an entirely different area. replace him as producer with any other rock producer but use the same marketing and the result would have been the same or better.

Blinks relevance in the mainstream now is down to marketing, not the music. Fall Out Boy is still huge and their music is dog shite now. they just have lots of money and marketing, it's all it is. 

I'm sure is both things. Feldmann is the guy for the industry when talking about this range of genres. I don't know why, but to me it's pretty obious. Similar to what Finn was back in the day, but with some differences. Finn was a really different personality, and his work was much more diverse. But then, he was the man when talking about punkpop going mainstream. Of course, that's not 100 for eeeeveryon, but you know.

Feldman is perfect in that sense. He's everywher, and he's able to get into the bands to the point he's able to maipulate lots of things to make them suit the trend, the radio or whatever. He's now the cool guy who produces everything. So, for me that's connected: yo get the guy, and in other side and not depending on Feldmann, you get the push just using the structures and the money to do it. The result of that equation, for that regard, was perfect.

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I looked at Feldmann's Wikipedia for the album he's produced and yeah, it's interestingly bad but he's pretty much only done scene bands for the past 10 years it seems. Not a lot of diversity really.

  • It says the last 5 Seconds of Summer's album he worked on went platinum (worldwide) which I don't think that's something you can get. What is "worldwide" platinum? That qualification doesn't actually exist to my knowledge. It probably sold over a million worldwide, or at least shipped.
  • Also it says that the album Future Hearts by ATL went #1 in 17 countries and that isn't true if you look at the Wikipedia for the record (I count only 4 and that's a big stretch).
  • There's also a "Double Platinum" claim for a band called "Itch" which doesn't even have a Wikipedia page. But it does say Double Platinum on his own page. Maybe it's from the JFRA?
  • It also claims that Goldfinger's Open Your Eyes had "1 Millions Copies Sold". Which is maybe more than a regular million? No citation at all on that. I'm assuming it didn't as that album was not very popular.
  • I'm amazed the band Atreyu had a gold record in America. They were pretty terrible. Just thought that was interesting cause I didn't know anybody who listened to them, but they actually do have a gold record. Maybe they overshipped?

I wonder why somebody would exaggerate this?

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22 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

I looked at Feldmann's Wikipedia for the album he's produced and yeah, it's interestingly bad but he's pretty much only done scene bands for the past 10 years it seems. Not a lot of diversity really.

I wonder why somebody would exaggerate this?

 

so i’ve established here before i’m active on wikipedia/wrote all the blink pages/etc. i suspect feldmann himself or someone at his studio edits his pages for him haha. he definitely uploaded photos of himself and the whole thing reeks of self-promotion. last i checked it wasn’t written the way wikipedia likes

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1 hour ago, _Kyle_ said:

I looked at Feldmann's Wikipedia for the album he's produced and yeah, it's interestingly bad but he's pretty much only done scene bands for the past 10 years it seems. Not a lot of diversity really.

  • It says the last 5 Seconds of Summer's album he worked on went platinum (worldwide) which I don't think that's something you can get. What is "worldwide" platinum? That qualification doesn't actually exist to my knowledge. It probably sold over a million worldwide, or at least shipped.
  • Also it says that the album Future Hearts by ATL went #1 in 17 countries and that isn't true if you look at the Wikipedia for the record (I count only 4 and that's a big stretch).
  • There's also a "Double Platinum" claim for a band called "Itch" which doesn't even have a Wikipedia page. But it does say Double Platinum on his own page. Maybe it's from the JFRA?
  • It also claims that Goldfinger's Open Your Eyes had "1 Millions Copies Sold". Which is maybe more than a regular million? No citation at all on that. I'm assuming it didn't as that album was not very popular.
  • I'm amazed the band Atreyu had a gold record in America. They were pretty terrible. Just thought that was interesting cause I didn't know anybody who listened to them, but they actually do have a gold record. Maybe they overshipped?

I wonder why somebody would exaggerate this?

It's weird because they're american, but I never hear americans talk about them... for a brief period they were huge over here lol

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atreyu was pretty big when i was a teenager, not crazy big, but im not surprised. they were only certified gold in january, so it's either paying the RIAA (easy promo for new studio album) to update the statistics, which now include streams.

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15 minutes ago, boxelder said:

atreyu was pretty big when i was a teenager, not crazy big, but im not surprised. they were only certified gold in january, so it's either paying the RIAA (easy promo for new studio album) to update the statistics, which now include streams.

Ah, yeah with that I imagine a lot of records from yesteryear will go Gold soon.

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