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Star Wars Episode 9 (SPOILERS!!!!)


Ghent
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15 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

Because you probably haven't run into runaway slaves recently? "Messa Jar Jar Binks" is something out of pre-civil war era black folk. The fact he's an ignorant buffoon created to be laughed at is kind of minstrel shit.

It also sucks because it has no real rhyme or reason to a lot of the characters who aren't speaking British or whatever dialect they chose for these movies. Carrie Fisher famously dropped her "british" accent along the way. But like the Yiddish the other aliens to in Phantom Menace, it's a pastiche kind of thing in that it follows old serials to make every alien basically be "ethnic". Waddo was some weird ethnic combination of italian and middle eastern.

Star Wars is mostly racist because it follows old serials that were, racist. George was probably aware enough to change them enough to where they don't quite hit that specific mark, but he didn't pull these things out of his ass. I mean, he called the bad guys "sand people". Not the most racially aware dude, or he doesn't actually care enough to cover his tracks better.

It is popular to make aliens seem ethnic because it FEELS alien to most of the people who are going to watch the movie.  

And holy retroactive examining of the term "sand people."  They live in the fucking desert.  In the sand.  That term is only offensive if you apply it to modern day events.  

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3 minutes ago, JarJarBlinks said:

It is popular to make aliens seem ethnic because it FEELS alien to most of the people who are going to watch the movie.  

And holy retroactive examining of the term "sand people."  They live in the fucking desert.  In the sand.  That term is only offensive if you apply it to modern day events.  

I don't think Yiddish is alien. I mean, I don't speak it, but it's kind of not what I would ascribe to some trickster from another galaxy. Maybe to people like George and his ilk. But not me man.

Also doesn't Obi-Wan and Luke live in the same area? Was Luke just being racist by calling them sand people? "Those brutes who cover their faces are at it again Uncle Owen!" Sounds bad now in retrospect, but come on, George knows where he was pulling that one. The fact they seemingly rape his grandma is maybe why, but damn did George create a loaded race with that one.

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7 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

"primitive"? Are you Clarke?

Also, it's not my original thought, as this has been brought up by people long before I said anything. I just see their point.

Maybe you should reach out to those who study these things and clear them up for them? Or are you going to stand down again today?

I don't see how it's inaccurate to describe Jar Jar's dialect as primitive

And I think primitive language can be associated with any race or ancestry

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1 minute ago, Ghent said:

I don't see how it's inaccurate to describe Jar Jar's dialect as primitive

And I think primitive language can be associated with any race or ancestry

As Jar Jar would say "How wude!"

But how exactly is it "primitive". Explain this.

Also have you ever read Heart of Darkness?

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Thoughts on the Necessity of Improving the Condition of The Slaves in the British Colonies, with a View to Their Ultimate Emancipation
By T. Clarkson, Esq

1823

pg 225

"Will no Buckra massa pity Negar? Whe me do? Me no have one child! A she stood before the window, she said, lifting up her hand towards heaven, " My massa do, my massa minister, pity me! My heart do so (shaking very violently), "my heart do so, because me have no child. Me go to massa house, in massa yard, and in my hut, and me no see 'em."

Gee golly, that sounds familiar.

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8 hours ago, _Kyle_ said:

Well yeah, it's more louder now that people have the ability to voice their opinion. Before, you'd have to go to a comic book store or blockbuster to get opinions outside of the internet. Also, you're how old?

You probably weren't aware of these movies being bad, let alone being disliked by anyone over 15.\

http://www.cnn.com/SHOWBIZ/Movies/9906/09/jar.jar/

but there was always hate for jar jar

I'm 27. I was 7 when Episode 1 came out. I've always been aware of the Jar Jar hate. I never understood it.

The only one of the movies I actually think is bad is Episode 2. And even then I still enjoy it (mostly).

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I was 12 or so when TPM came out...I knew that JarJar was kind of a flop as far as humor goes, but he didn't kill the movie or anything for me. I think I eventually paid extra attention to him simply because of all the hate that came from adult fanboys.

As I got older I embraced an ironic love of Jar Jar. The hate for him was over the top.

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8 hours ago, _Kyle_ said:

Because you probably haven't run into runaway slaves recently? "Messa Jar Jar Binks" is something out of pre-civil war era black folk. The fact he's an ignorant buffoon created to be laughed at is kind of minstrel shit.

It also sucks because it has no real rhyme or reason to a lot of the characters who aren't speaking British or whatever dialect they chose for these movies. Carrie Fisher famously dropped her "british" accent along the way. But like the Yiddish the other aliens to in Phantom Menace, it's a pastiche kind of thing in that it follows old serials to make every alien basically be "ethnic". Waddo was some weird ethnic combination of italian and middle eastern.

Star Wars is mostly racist because it follows old serials that were, racist. George was probably aware enough to change them enough to where they don't quite hit that specific mark, but he didn't pull these things out of his ass. I mean, he called the bad guys "sand people". Not the most racially aware dude, or he doesn't actually care enough to cover his tracks better.

It's not surprising to me that there was a backlash of having more prominent minority actors in these films. I think there's a good amount of star wars fans that do have underlying racist expectations. I also get that it was a very calculated move by Disney and likely was to create bigger profits. But they also probably feared a #starwarssowhite backlash if they didn't have more characters like Rose. Oh, and Chinese box office is a thing now.

My question was genuine. I'd never heard of people speaking like that. I can see the connection now, but still think it's a bit of a stretch.

What I don't get is why using foreign or unique accents is automatically equated to racism. If every alien spoke like an American it would feel cheap and fake. George took accents from around the world and applied them to aliens from around the galaxy, instead of inventing 100 brand new accents, which would be hard and would probably not sound good.

The Carrie Fisher British accent thing was always weird and funny to me. But they actually took that and later incorporated it into Star Wars lore. Queen Amidala also spoke with a British even though Padme speaks with an American accent. The characters speak with an accent in certain formal situations and don't in everyday interactions. In The Force Unleashed  video game the main character also spoke with a British accent when in the presence of Darth Vader, and in an American accent for the rest of the game.

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14 hours ago, Cheerios4u98 said:

My question was genuine. I'd never heard of people speaking like that. I can see the connection now, but still think it's a bit of a stretch.

What I don't get is why using foreign or unique accents is automatically equated to racism. If every alien spoke like an American it would feel cheap and fake. George took accents from around the world and applied them to aliens from around the galaxy, instead of inventing 100 brand new accents, which would be hard and would probably not sound good.

The Carrie Fisher British accent thing was always weird and funny to me. But they actually took that and later incorporated it into Star Wars lore. Queen Amidala also spoke with a British even though Padme speaks with an American accent. The characters speak with an accent in certain formal situations and don't in everyday interactions. In The Force Unleashed  video game the main character also spoke with a British accent when in the presence of Darth Vader, and in an American accent for the rest of the game.

Really, you don't understand why heavy-handed racial stereotyping plastered onto bad guys/annoying CGI characters ain't a problem? It's also not great when the main three protagonist in these films are white? It's also just fucking scummy if you ask me.

It's the same reason Song of the South is no longer acknowledged by Disney. I'm sure certain posters here love that film, and probably yearn to expel their love for it, but it's horribly offensive.

Let me ask you this, why was Lando, a prominent black character who does both bad and good things beloved, while Jar-Jar wasn't?

 

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23 minutes ago, _Kyle_ said:

Really, you don't understand why heavy-handed racial stereotyping plastered onto bad guys/annoying CGI characters ain't a problem? It's also not great when the main three protagonist in these films are white? It's also just fucking scummy if you ask me.

It's the same reason Song of the South is no longer acknowledged by Disney. I'm sure certain posters here love that film, and probably yearn to expel their love for it, but it's horribly offensive.

Let me ask you this, why was Lando, a prominent black character who does both bad and good things beloved, while Jar-Jar wasn't?

 

Lando is one of the biggest stereotypes in Star Wars lmao.  

He is literally a space-Pimp.  

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6 minutes ago, Ghent said:

I think it's time to dig deep and figure out why Jar Jar Binks reminds you of a black person

https://www.ferris.edu/htmls/news/jimcrow/coon/

I guess black people are really the racist ones?

5 minutes ago, JarJarBlinks said:

Lando is one of the biggest stereotypes in Star Wars lmao.  

He is literally a space-Pimp.  

he's literally a pimp? I never caught that.

I won't deny Lando is rooted in Blaxploitation, but Billie Dee brought that. George sure as hell didn't write it.

Quote

“[Filmmaker, writer, and George Lucas biographer] Dale Pollock reports that Lucas was ‘still smarting from criticism that Star Wars was racist,’ so he ‘conceived of Lando as a suave, dashing black man in his thirties,’” wrote Kevin J. Wetmore Jr., author of The Empire Triumphant: Race, Religion and Rebellion in the Star Wars Films. “The irony is that Billy Dee Williams was interested in the role precisely because the character wasn’t specifically black – there is nothing inherent in the script that makes Lando a person of color, other than the fact that specified in the script is that half the residents of Bespin are black. Of course, in the final version, only two or three residents of Bespin are black.”

https://www.slashfilm.com/blaxploitation-roots-of-lando/

womp womp

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Maybe if Jar Jar Binks was a monkey or something we could talk about this historical coon caricature.

He's just a goofy alien that's part of a species that doesn't share much of his goofiness. In fact, the Gungans seem to be quite noble and accomplished when you think about it.

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  • Ghent changed the title to Star Wars Episode 9 (NO SPOILERS)

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