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New Green Day album "Father of All Motherfuckers"


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28 minutes ago, M!ke said:

compared to how disrespectful it was to blatantly steal the tune from Under Pressure

vanilla ice (or, rather, his producer) was sampling queen. which is a completely respectful and legal artistic practice, endorsed by rights-holding organizations such as BMI and ASCAP, the RIAA, etc.

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5 minutes ago, daveyjones said:

vanilla ice (or, rather, his producer) was sampling queen. which is a completely respectful and legal artistic practice, endorsed by rights-holding organizations such as BMI and ASCAP, the RIAA, etc.

Except, he did it without permission, and then tried to defend his action by stating that because it didn't have those 2 piano keys after the beat that it wasn't stealing.  And this was at a time before sampling became what it is today, I have no issue with doing it the legit way where you get proper permission from the original artist.  But when you're straight up stealing without asking, (which isn't a far cry away from some of the tunes we hear lifted from other artists and implemented within songs like Green Day's American Idiot album), then that's a different story in my opinion.

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2 minutes ago, M!ke said:

Except, he did it without permission

sure. but i wouldn't call that "disrespectful" nor "stealing." i would call it "sampling without permission." which, as you point out, he got caught doing. and he was awful weasley about it. although he did claim that the bit about the additional notes was a joke:

https://www.iowastatedaily.com/news/word-to-your-mother/article_766d27d2-dc56-5ff3-9040-47e44d46094f.html

incidentally, you don't need the artist's permission to sample. and you can recreate the music without violating the copyright of the master recording. if i wanted to recreate the riff from "dammit" for a hip-hop song, i only need to go through ASCAP and pay the proper royalties on the recording.

aside: to the extreme is the first CD i ever bought!

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5 hours ago, M!ke said:

I don't think he's denying that, he's just saying once you recognize where the tunes are being lifted from, it can be annoying especially when an album is full of it, and I get it to an extent.  I can typically look past it if the music is still good.  But it is interesting, you see Underclass Hero by Sum 41 get shit on a lot for that very thing, but I'd argue that album is no worse in that regard than American Idiot is.  I think the Sum 41 situation just got more shit because it was the first album without the genuine talent of Brownsound infusing the music full of his own unique sounds, like Sum 41 prior to Underclass Hero weren't so known for borrowing so heavily from other music, while Green Day had been doing that for long before American Idiot.  Frankly, I'd probably put both those albums on about the same level, enjoyable listens start to finish, not particularly breaking new ground with anything they're putting forward, fun to listen to over and over for brief periods of life, but too much can quickly get you turned off of the album and put it on a shelf again for months or even years before you listen again.

What? 

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8 hours ago, daveyjones said:

sure. but i wouldn't call that "disrespectful" nor "stealing." i would call it "sampling without permission." which, as you point out, he got caught doing. and he was awful weasley about it. although he did claim that the bit about the additional notes was a joke:

https://www.iowastatedaily.com/news/word-to-your-mother/article_766d27d2-dc56-5ff3-9040-47e44d46094f.html

incidentally, you don't need the artist's permission to sample. and you can recreate the music without violating the copyright of the master recording. if i wanted to recreate the riff from "dammit" for a hip-hop song, i only need to go through ASCAP and pay the proper royalties on the recording.

aside: to the extreme is the first CD i ever bought!

Considering that Queen and David Bowie were not originally credited for the track, and it would have stayed that way had the song not caught on and become a big hit, I do find it disrespectful.  Vanilla Ice is a douche at the end of the day.

To a similar extent, I found it really gross how similar that Sam Smith song was to Tom Petty's Wont Back Down.  And he too originally gave no credit to Tom Petty, but after backlash gave him co-writing credit.  Like I seriously don't mind if you do want to reuse a tune, but if you're going to be so blatant about it and give no credit, then I find that disrespectful.  Ask permission, give co-writing credit from the start and then I wont look at you as a hack of a musician (or at least far less of one).

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1 hour ago, M!ke said:

Ok, calling him a douche was probably too far, I don't hate Vanilla Ice, but at that particular moment in history he seemed like a bit of a scumbag to me.

It was 92, thats just how we rolled.

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6 hours ago, M!ke said:

Considering that Queen and David Bowie were not originally credited for the track, and it would have stayed that way had the song not caught on and become a big hit, I do find it disrespectful.

to be fair, the relevant legal precedents for sampling were still being established when to the extreme was produced. if you wish to give vanilla ice's producer(s) the benefit of the doubt, it's quite likely they thought they were acting in good faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(music)

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6 hours ago, daveyjones said:

to be fair, the relevant legal precedents for sampling were still being established when to the extreme was produced. if you wish to give vanilla ice's producer(s) the benefit of the doubt, it's quite likely they thought they were acting in good faith.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sampling_(music)

I get that you're saying that when it comes to sampling and the like in that you're not required to ask permission, but if we're talking about what I find disrespectful or not, I find taking someone else's art without permission and appropriating it for your own career to be a bit scummy.  Likewise, Weird Al doesn't need to ask permission to parody the songs he does, but he always gets permission to parody every song that he does.  To me, that is how you do it right and I really respect that, even though he doesn't have to do that.

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On 7/23/2020 at 9:01 PM, Speedo said:

I forgot how steller pre-American Idiot Green Day was, I've been working my way through their catalog this week and enjoyed every minute of it.

While I agree to this to some extent, Billie's voice really irks me after 5/6 songs. I can not listen to a full green day album in one go. 

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On 8/14/2020 at 8:14 PM, thongrider said:

Not even Kerplunk? 

Honestly, no. There are a hell of a lot of green day songs that I love but I can't just listen to green day in one go. I don't know whether this is because my brother used to play them constantly, or whether it's that it's just Billie singing. 

It's one of the things I have always loved about Blink is the fact that they have two different singers, for me it stops albums becoming boring/stale. 

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