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How come Scott Raynor didn't have Song Writing credits on Cheshire Cat?


Brannigan
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I ask this because I was curious about Scott's contributions in terms of music, and that All other releases (Buddha remastered, Dude Ranch) has him share writing credits with Tom and Mark ("All tracks are Written by..."), but not Cheshire Cat. The only thing I found that could've factored into that was him having to leave the band after Recording of Cheshire Cat was finished. Just wondering.

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1 hour ago, Brannigan said:

The only thing I found that could've factored into that was him having to leave the band after Recording of Cheshire Cat was finished. Just wondering.

scott left blink over three and half years after the album was recorded. publishing credits literally come down to individual negotiations within a band. for example, for the entire career of R.E.M. they credited every song Berry / Bills / Mills / Stipe no matter if one person wrote the song or two did or all did. it was just royalty policy; even split. 

other bands are more specific. if (C) (P) Fun With Goats was just mark and tom and not scott, that that's what they (with management) agreed to.

and this changes over a band's lifetime. IIRC travis did not get credits for enema but directly went to the band later and made the case that he should get them and he did on later recordings.

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1 hour ago, daveyjones said:

scott left blink over three and half years after the album was recorded. publishing credits literally come down to individual negotiations within a band. for example, for the entire career of R.E.M. they credited every song Berry / Bills / Mills / Stipe no matter if one person wrote the song or two did or all did. it was just royalty policy; even split. 

other bands are more specific. if (C) (P) Fun With Goats was just mark and tom and not scott, that that's what they (with management) agreed to.

and this changes over a band's lifetime. IIRC travis did not get credits for enema but directly went to the band later and made the case that he should get them and he did on later recordings.

Okay, but I'm just a little bewildered by him having credits on Dude Ranch afterwards, and the Buddha remaster months after he was kicked; not to mention that some of the Buddha songs are on Cheshire Cat too, but he doesn't get credited at all, aside from performance. Obviously, I know nothing about how that all goes down with Blink, but I just found it odd is all. 

1 hour ago, daveyjones said:

@Brannigani could always ask mark if you're curious though.

Yes, please.

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1 hour ago, Brannigan said:

Okay, but I'm just a little bewildered by him having credits on Dude Ranch afterwards, and the Buddha remaster months after he was kicked; not to mention that some of the Buddha songs are on Cheshire Cat too, but he doesn't get credited at all, aside from performance.

it seems to me that raynor had a travis-like conversation with mark, tom, and management when they signed with MCA, and was included in a new publishing agreement. like it appears being signed to a major would explain the conversation. that would cover dude ranch. if he received a publishing credit on the kung fu re-release of buddha, keep in mind that's the first time that album was "officially" released on an actual label with legal arrangements for (P) and (C). pat called his release a label (filter records) but there is no indication there was anything ASCAP set up until Fun with Goats after they signed to cargo. so it would appear that whatever arrangement was made covered future releases. legally this would "grandfather in" the songs on buddha.

it seems like a pretty in the weeds thing to discuss. i doubt mark would even know or remember. like there are things i have wondered about from those years, sure. but i have never, ever, ever, ever thought about this one.

if this brings you bewilderment, i hope at the least you enjoy it! 😀

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3 minutes ago, daveyjones said:

if this brings you bewilderment, i hope at the least you enjoy it! 

It does for me, as what I’m learning in school involves understanding publishing and songwriting credits and how that all shakes out.

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writing / publishing usually focuses on the composition of the song based on lyrics, melodies, and music (chords pretty much. It’s sort of a case by case thing but if you think about it there are really only a few options that make sense as far as what the drums can be. of course in the case of Travis his parts are essentially hooks and extremely crucial to the composition to the songs. A lot of bands just decidedly split the publishing up between everyone for the good of band and keeping everyone feeling happy and a part of it. Scott would have always been apart of the master recordings. 

I will say Travis definitely sort of broke the mold as far as drummers being thought of as a creative force when it comes to the writing. But I can’t imagine what anthem part 2, feeling this, adams song etc would sound like without the parts he wrote 

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50 minutes ago, daveyjones said:

probably better. travis overdrums on everything.

to each their own - to my point those songs would have been very different songs not just recordings and I think that was pretty clear to the band. I do think Scott is under appreciated though. his playing although simple was actually quite stylistic in the way that Tom’s guitar playing was/is. 

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I think Travis inspired some of those songs to exist. imagine Shut Up with Scott playing - I can’t - that’s why the pub was warranted. I think probably any good punk drummer could have made a maybe not the same, maybe better maybe a little worse but similar version dude ranch, cheshire etc 

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