"The Sum 41 Thread"

[Ghent]

and it was all started by you! 

 

now i see supervic lurking, so i'm sure we'll all be put in our place by the latest article

[M!ke]

and it was all started by you! 

 

now i see supervic lurking, so i'm sure we'll all be put in our place by the latest article

 

I think you mean novel lol.

[_Kyle_]

good you fuckers need it

[Melty Mark]

He has the time and patience for what most of us do not.

[supervic]

It's just a mix of factors. No choice is completely free, you've got influences from your surroundings and people in your life. Changes are Ghent, if you had all those relatives that were alcoholics, you would have been too. But you ended up not being, because you had a different upbringing and lived a different life than your grandparents and uncle. Nothing is ever completely genes or environment.. it's about how the odds stack up.. and also about how the cookie crumbles, and in your case, it worked out okay. 

 

It's not a completely foreign concept. It's like if you got a disease that had an 80% chance of death. Chances are you'll die.. but that doesn't mean you will. There's a 20% chance you'll live.

[M!ke]

It just seems to me that some people give alcohol too much power.  Yes you can get addicted to it, but don't let that be the reason why you get addicted to it.  We all have it in us to rise above temptation and even the worst of addictions.  Likewise, don't let predispositions have power over you either.  Just cuz your family members were addicted in the past doesn't mean that if you touch some booze you'll instantly be an addict either.  Respect it and its power, but don't make it out to be a bigger demon than it really is.

[Ghent]

I agree supervic that many factors come into play. But I would argue that personal choice and circumstances carry more weight than genetics do. I wrote my thesis and published an article about alcoholism in the 19th century military. The rate of alcoholism was exponentially higher than in the general public (which was also much higher than today). This was due to circumstance more so than any predisposition to alcoholism.

 

If I worked for the railroad like my alcoholic great grandfather, or was in a heartbreaking divorce like my other alcoholic great grandfather, I would be much more prone to becoming an alcoholic. They weren't drinking for fun in a casual middle class environment like I do.

[thongrider]

How can you argue otherwise about obesity?  If you grow up in a household being only fed healthy things, and work out every day, there is no way in hell that you would be obese.  Show me that person that ate healthy and played sports and lifted weights his whole life that is a fat sack of crap, please.

So obese people are "fat sacks of crap" now?

 

I don't know if those people exist, I don't know what you mean by "ate healthy", but I think if you put three people on the same diet through their childhood years it'd be entirely possibly if one of them turned out fat, the second one turned out middle and the third one turned out skinny.

 

I don't know if it's possible to blame genetics on anything entirely. When it comes to obesity, if you eat as healthy and exercise as much as the other kids and are fatter than them that might do something to you might get other problems either on its own of because of it and you might start eating more or drinking and it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. Everyone has a different story.

[Melty Mark]

I don't think there's any way to say what causes alcoholism for everyone, or even for a majority.

 

There are scientific linkages between genetics and alcoholism, there are also alcoholics with no family history. I don't even know what we are discussing anymore.

[M!ke]

So obese people are "fat sacks of crap" now?

 

I don't know if those people exist, I don't know what you mean by "ate healthy", but I think if you put three people on the same diet through their childhood years it'd be entirely possibly if one of them turned out fat, the second one turned out middle and the third one turned out skinny.

 

I don't know if it's possible to blame genetics on anything entirely. When it comes to obesity, if you eat as healthy and exercise as much as the other kids that might do something to you might get other problems either on its own of because of it and you might start eating more or drinking and it becomes a self fulfilling prophesy. Everyone has a different story.

 

Well obesity isn't something anyone should want, its unhealthy, and like it or not has an effect on both the person's outlook on life, and other people's outlook on that person.  Maybe you wouldn't call that person a fat sack of crap, but it certainly isn't a good thing anyone should strive for.

 

Now sure, two people on the same diet may exhibit different weight gain/loss.  But that's not my point.  My point is that if you eat healthy your whole life, and work out and play sports every day, you will not be obese, there is just no way.  Genetics may play into how much longer it takes to grow muscle or lose weight, but don't mistake that for meaning that your genetics dictate if you are obese or not.

 

Having said that, your body adapts, if you've been working out and eating healthy your whole life, there is no way you'll have been obese at any point in time, and your body will not be slow to grow muscle or lose weight.

[Ghent]

I don't think there's any way to say what causes alcoholism for everyone, or even for a majority.

 

There are scientific linkages between genetics and alcoholism, there are also alcoholics with no family history. I don't even know what we are discussing anymore.

 

 

Just get drunk on the weekends people.

 

now we're full circle

[thongrider]

Well obesity isn't something anyone should want, its unhealthy, and like it or not has an effect on both the person's outlook on life, and other people's outlook on that person.  Maybe you wouldn't call that person a fat sack of crap, but it certainly isn't a good thing anyone should strive for.

 

Now sure, two people on the same diet may exhibit different weight gain/loss.  But that's not my point.  My point is that if you eat healthy your whole life, and work out and play sports every day, you will not be obese, there is just no way.  Genetics may play into how much longer it takes to grow muscle or lose weight, but don't mistake that for meaning that your genetics dictate if you are obese or not.

That's kind of what I said.

 

Having cancer isn't something people want to either, but if someone called cancer patients "sick shit of tumors" or something I'd think that person lacked empathy for other people.

[Ghent]

i don't think i could debate with thongrider. you post piles of steaming crap that make no sense, then try to engage in debate about serious topics. 

[thongrider]

Just get drunk on the weekends people.

 

now we're full circle

Or don't get drunk at all!

 

I definitely think you can be an alcoholic, if not an alcoholic at least have an alcohol problem, even if you only drink on the weekends. It's not always about amount, it's about how much it controls your life.

[Fun, Catchy Pop-Punk]

All Ghent meant was doing something in moderation makes it safe and ok...

[M!ke]

All Ghent meant was doing something in moderation makes it safe and ok...

 

I think what he was saying is if you drink in moderation, its pretty unlikely you'll ever end up in a spot where you can't ever have another drink or you'll die.

[thongrider]

i don't think i could debate with thongrider. you post piles of steaming crap that make no sense, then try to engage in debate about serious topics. 

story of my life.

[M!ke]

That's kind of what I said.

 

Having cancer isn't something people want to either, but if someone called cancer patients "sick shit of tumors" or something I'd think that person lacked empathy for other people.

 

You seem to be trying to equate the disease of cancer with the controllable state of being obese.  I would never call someone with cancer a "sick shit of tumors" to their face or behind their back because that is a horrible horrible thing to say.  I would absolutely call an obese person a fat sack of crap behind their back, and possibly to their face if they're a total asshole.  I have no empathy for the obese, I'm sorry, but if you are obese, you have no one to blame but yourself, and possibly your parents if they fed you terribly as a child when you had little to no control of what you did.

[Melty Mark]

All Ghent meant was doing something in moderation makes it safe and ok...

 

While saying that life without alcohol is lame and that people should just learn how to moderate.

 

It isn't a thing some people just know how to do. Also it was within the context of Whibley bringing this on himself. His fucking liver failed for Christ sake, he's learning his lesson here and I doubt he loved getting to this point.

[thongrider]

You seem to be trying to equate the disease of cancer with the controllable state of being obese.  I would never call someone with cancer a "sick shit of tumors" to their face or behind their back because that is a horrible horrible thing to say.  I would absolutely call an obese person a fat sack of crap behind their back, and possibly to their face if they're a total asshole.  I have no empathy for the obese, I'm sorry, but if you are obese, you have no one to blame but yourself, and possibly your parents if they fed you terribly as a child when you had little to no control of what you did.

Well, that's nice. It was great having this conversation with you.