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2 minutes ago, Nosferatu said:

Still doesn't mean they're crap songs. Sometimes an artist doesn't know what kind of song they have. Sometimes the song might not fit on an album. There's a song that I've delayed working on yet I find it's the best idea I've had. But it doesn't fit on my album. I can't find space for it. 

They didn't start from scratch for Feldman to get his writing credits. Feldman has already mentioned the songs before and said they didn't sound like blink songs. That was why they didn't make the album. 

But what if you were releasing a DLX version with nothing but B-sides and no boundaries? There was plenty of space for any halfway decent song on DLX, and the theme/mood/vibe was irrelevant.

Yes he said the stuff they had done didn't really sound like Blink, but also that they salvaged "Hey I'm Sorry" which in all honesty, doesn't sound like "Blink" to me...it just had the makings of a decent song so they felt it was worthy to continue pursuing. Which is why I personally think if anything was halfway decent, they certainly would've used bits and pieces of it when working on California. But, none of it was even worth revisiting, because it was so bad in their opinion...

 

 

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14 minutes ago, Ry-Bread said:

Including the underwater and winning the war references that you are the leader of the hate train on?

 

So you guys really think that they had some extremely amazing songs, and just threw every single one in the garbage because they were "non-Blink sounding" and then went on to release Los Angeles/Sober/California/ Bottom of The Ocean/Last Train Home/Long Lost Feelings/etc.? None of which really sound like classic Blink, and any +44 vibe material probably would've fit better to begin with?

Sorry I was debating with Blink fans, not Calibots.

How much does Feldmann pay for these a month?

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"Hold me down deep under water
Wave goodbye to all your daughters
Break yourself but why even bother?
Fathers pray for princes instead
Have your fill of disappointment
Two more years of unemployment
All your fears come to life
And leave you boarded up, abandoned and spent"

vs.

"We won this war, we cursed and swore
They stood no chance at all (The underdogs came home)
We won this war, we cursed and swore
They stood no chance at all

StRiKe A mAtCh aNd StArT a WiLdFiRe"

 

Yeah totally the same @Ry-Bread ?

 

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14 minutes ago, Ry-Bread said:

But what if you were releasing a DLX version with nothing but B-sides and no boundaries? There was plenty of space for any halfway decent song on DLX, and the theme/mood/vibe was irrelevant.

Yes he said the stuff they had done didn't really sound like Blink, but also that they salvaged "Hey I'm Sorry" which in all honesty, doesn't sound like "Blink" to me...it just had the makings of a decent song so they felt it was worthy to continue pursuing. Which is why I personally think if anything was halfway decent, they certainly would've used bits and pieces of it when working on California. But, none of it was even worth revisiting, because it was so bad in their opinion...

 

 

Mark has said before he doesn't like going back to songs that were written in the past and that they just like to move on. It's just how he works. I'm not the biggest Alkaline Trio fan, I find a lot of they're stuff samey and repetitive. They do have some amazing songs though. Plus those demos probably would've been similar in that sense. Barely any decent riffs and all would've had very generic +44/Alkaline Trio vibes. But I do think the songs would've been a lot more honest and genuine than what we got. It would've been a flawed album, because Skiba and Mark were getting used to each other. But even then, some of those songs would've been amazing.

I think blink fans would've been happy with it. It wouldn't have had nearly as many haters as California got or what BIOMY got. It would've been a solid effort. Probably wouldn't have made a commercial impact because the +44/Alkaline Trio sound isn't radio friendly. I wasn't a fan of the title of one of the songs though. It was "Punk Rock Cliche" and I remember an interview in 2015 and they mentioned that as the title of one of them. I cringed at that one.

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9 minutes ago, RebelGirlsUnite said:

 

"We won this war, we cursed and swore
They stood no chance at all (The underdogs came home)
We won this war, we cursed and swore
They stood no chance at all

StRiKe A mAtCh aNd StArT a WiLdFiRe"

 

Yeah totally the same @Ry-Bread ?

 

And just think, the stuff they had written before wasn't even close enough to this to even bother recording properly or borrow a verse from...lol.

It was scrapworthy, they all thought so, and so did Feldmann. There's a reason it's rotting on a hard-drive, which is my only point. 

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54 minutes ago, Ry-Bread said:

And just think, the stuff they had written before wasn't even close enough to this to even bother recording properly or borrow a verse from...lol.

It was scrapworthy, they all thought so, and so did Feldmann. There's a reason it's rotting on a hard-drive, which is my only point. 

Yeah, we've all thought of it. There's many reasons why they haven't revisited, many of which Mark and Feldman have confirmed.

Not sounding like "blink" were Feldman's reasons

Revisiting songs that were written in the past is something Mark avoids, which he's confirmed himself

All the other reasons, we'll never know. But you can't say they were crap songs. We can't say they were amazing either. But it's highly likely they would've been a lot of very good songs considering Mark rarely got it wrong before the release of California and Skiba is a damn good songwriter. There would've been a few crap on there too. But it would've been more honest and genuine than California.

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1 minute ago, Nosferatu said:

Revisiting songs that were written in the past is something Mark avoids, which he's confirmed himself

You realize that "in the past" would've been like, a day or two prior right? Like a few months at most? That's not real far in the past lol. They got in Feldy's studio and the stuff they made blew anything they had made prior out of the water, which is why those made Cali+DLX, and 99.9% of anything prior never saw the light of day. It's pretty simple, conspiracies aside.

If they had Stairway to Heaven, they wouldn't have ditched it for Teenage Satellites and BTD Acoustic. If there was ONE good guitar riff, it would've been kept, any decent chorus/verses would've been salvaged. They chose basically nothing, which says it all. 

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18 minutes ago, Ry-Bread said:

You realize that "in the past" would've been like, a day or two prior right? Like a few months at most? That's not real far in the past lol. They got in Feldy's studio and the stuff they made blew anything they had made prior out of the water, which is why those made Cali+DLX, and 99.9% of anything prior never saw the light of day. It's pretty simple, conspiracies aside.

If they had Stairway to Heaven, they wouldn't have ditched it for Teenage Satellites and BTD Acoustic. If there was ONE good guitar riff, it would've been kept, any decent chorus/verses would've been salvaged. They chose basically nothing, which says it all. 

Yeah, no shit. When i say in the past, i don't mean past 2 days. They recorded these demos around September/October of 2015. Feldman was onboard in January 2016 and convinced them to start from scratch as they weren't "blink" sounding to him. Fast forward to the DLX, which was recorded February/March 2017 and released in May of the same year, Mark had an interview shortly after. He said there's loads of songs that he had written for California and could release them if he wished, but by the time they'd release them, they'd already feel like old songs for him. The demos at that point were almost 2 years old. Pretty far in the past to me.

And yeah they would've ditched a song like Stairway to Heaven. Highly doubt blink fans wanna listen to a long ass 8 minute track that isn't pop punk or punk rock. Doesn't matter how legendary the song is. Could've at least mentioned Jesus of Suburbia. But blink aren't that kind of band at all. They won't take that risk. Mark doesn't have the balls. Maybe under Tom had they kept together instead of breaking up in 2005 they would've released some AVA/blink styled rock opera but that's a different topic.

The songs weren't scrapped because they weren't good. They've already explained why they didn't revisit or choose them.

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13 minutes ago, Ry-Bread said:

You realize that "in the past" would've been like, a day or two prior right? Like a few months at most? That's not real far in the past lol. They got in Feldy's studio and the stuff they made blew anything they had made prior out of the water, which is why those made Cali+DLX, and 99.9% of anything prior never saw the light of day. It's pretty simple, conspiracies aside.

If they had Stairway to Heaven, they wouldn't have ditched it for Teenage Satellites and BTD Acoustic. If there was ONE good guitar riff, it would've been kept, any decent chorus/verses would've been salvaged. They chose basically nothing, which says it all. 

So you believe mark Matt and Travis can’t write a good song together without the help of songwriters?

There is definitely a chance that when Feldman came in they were made to drop all those songs written before him and start completely fresh in order for him to help write and promote the album. We’ve barely heard a word from Feldman in the last few months. I don’t think I’ve heard him mention BIOMY at all. And that’s probably because he had nothing to do with it.

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These short little clips are 100 times better than Parking Lot and Wildfire. Unreleased tracks. These were all recorded before Tom quit again though. Built This Pool cannot count though. That was never meant to be a song in the first place. Feldman found it funny when he first heard it. Glad they released that.

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5 minutes ago, Nosferatu said:

They recorded these demos around September/October of 2015. Feldman was onboard in January 2016 and convinced them to start from scratch as they weren't "blink" sounding to him. Fast forward to the DLX, which was recorded February/March 2017 and released in May of the same year, Mark had an interview shortly after. He said there's loads of songs that he had written for California and could release them if he wished, but by the time they'd release them, they'd already feel like old songs for him. The demos at that point were almost 2 years old. Pretty far in the past to me.

So yeah, a whopping 2 months....again, if there was ANYTHING worth keeping, they would've. (They proved this with "Hey I'm Sorry" which wasn't even good enough to make the main album). Feldy was not holding them at gunpoint saying "That's all Alk3/+44 crap, you're ditching all of it."

Your DLX point is the entire reason they released DLX, which contained mostly songs from the original California sessions with Feldy that they had already been sitting on a year. 

8 minutes ago, Russel Coight said:

So you believe mark Matt and Travis can’t write a good song together without the help of songwriters?

There is definitely a chance that when Feldman came in they were made to drop all those songs written before him and start completely fresh in order for him to help write and promote the album.

I believe they write good songs right now, and that the "co-writers" have relatively little to do with any of it. There is a reason I don't like any of these "co-writer's" bands, yet love Blink...because it's Mark/Matt primarily writing IMO.

Feldy has said his favorite artists to work with are ones who are good songwriters. He doesn't WANT to write people's albums for them, it's much easier when they do it all and he can just help them with ideas or challenge them. They got in the studio with him and it just clicked and the rest is history. If they had good songs up front, he could've cleaned them up, got his credits, and been on his way. But none were even worth taking a VERSE or CHORUS from...none even had a better guitar riff than KOTW ffs...

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The demo recorded before Cali is absolutely amazing. The best thing they ever did, including Flyswatter! 

 

It's a shame they didn't use one riff or idea from that masterpiece on California. The album would have been so much better. It really showed what Mark and Matt could accomplish together. All my favorite songs are on that album. I just wish I could hear them some day. 

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22 minutes ago, Ry-Bread said:

You realize that "in the past" would've been like, a day or two prior right? Like a few months at most? That's not real far in the past lol. They got in Feldy's studio and the stuff they made blew anything they had made prior out of the water, which is why those made Cali+DLX, and 99.9% of anything prior never saw the light of day. It's pretty simple, conspiracies aside.

If they had Stairway to Heaven, they wouldn't have ditched it for Teenage Satellites and BTD Acoustic. If there was ONE good guitar riff, it would've been kept, any decent chorus/verses would've been salvaged. They chose basically nothing, which says it all. 

I guess it depends on how much you want to take at face value, if you think it's as simple as "whatever made the albums must have been the best they could do" then it makes sense, but I don't think that's necessarily how it went down. They definitely weren't satisfied with what they came up with pre-Feldy, but that doesn't mean it wasn't good or that none of it even reached the levels of the worst songs on Cali or Deluxe. I think it was more of a decision to start from scratch.

It's always been pretty clear that Feldmann helped them decide to wash their hands of those sessions completely, think of them as practice for the real thing, and start totally fresh once they started working together in his studio. By the time they were writing/recording Deluxe they were well on their way to thinking of Blink as this new thing that they created/rediscovered with Feldmann's guidance, I don't think they would've even had any interest in revisiting more songs from the pre-Feldy sessions. They just figured they were all feeling more comfortable and ready to keep moving onto the next era rather than trying to salvage songs they made before they found their vibe for the "New Blink".

But I don't personally think that means those songs weren't good songs. Maybe they were a mess, maybe there's some cool stuff in there, I'd love to find out haha.

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8 minutes ago, Ry-Bread said:

So yeah, a whopping 2 months....again, if there was ANYTHING worth keeping, they would've. (They proved this with "Hey I'm Sorry" which wasn't even good enough to make the main album). Feldy was not holding them at gunpoint saying "That's all Alk3/+44 crap, you're ditching all of it."

Your DLX point is the entire reason they released DLX, which contained mostly songs from the original California sessions with Feldy that they had already been sitting on a year. 

I believe they write good songs right now, and that the "co-writers" have relatively little to do with any of it. There is a reason I don't like any of these "co-writer's" bands, yet love Blink...because it's Mark/Matt primarily writing IMO.

Feldy has said his favorite artists to work with are ones who are good songwriters. He doesn't WANT to write people's albums for them, it's much easier when they do it all and he can just help them with ideas or challenge them. They got in the studio with him and it just clicked and the rest is history. If they had good songs up front, he could've cleaned them up, got his credits, and been on his way. But none were even worth taking a VERSE or CHORUS from...none even had a better guitar riff than KOTW ffs...

Man... Is it hard to not accept that blink simply didn't use them songs for the first album cause they WEREN'T blink sounding? Feldman CONFIRMED that he said they weren't blink sounding. Just simply research it. We aren't coming up with the gunpoint fanfiction crap. As for the whole point of the DLX, they explained all the songs track by track. Only Hey I'm Sorry made the cut. That was the one for some strange reason they decided to revisit and it was released a year beforehand. All the other tracks weren't older songs. Mark has confirmed AFTER the release of the DLX that he doesn't really like to revisit the old songs. At that point, those 2015 demos were 2 years old. Not 2 months.

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2 minutes ago, Ry-Bread said:

So yeah, a whopping 2 months....again, if there was ANYTHING worth keeping, they would've. (They proved this with "Hey I'm Sorry" which wasn't even good enough to make the main album). Feldy was not holding them at gunpoint saying "That's all Alk3/+44 crap, you're ditching all of it."

Your DLX point is the entire reason they released DLX, which contained mostly songs from the original California sessions with Feldy that they had already been sitting on a year. 

I believe they write good songs right now, and that the "co-writers" have relatively little to do with any of it. There is a reason I don't like any of these "co-writer's" bands, yet love Blink...because it's Mark/Matt primarily writing IMO.

Feldy has said his favorite artists to work with are ones who are good songwriters. He doesn't WANT to write people's albums for them, it's much easier when they do it all and he can just help them with ideas or challenge them. They got in the studio with him and it just clicked and the rest is history. If they had good songs up front, he could've cleaned them up, got his credits, and been on his way. But none were even worth taking a VERSE or CHORUS from...none even had a better guitar riff than KOTW ffs...

Praise the feldlord, let his flesh be in our bread and his blood be in our strawberry daiquiri. 

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1 minute ago, Nosferatu said:

Man... Is it hard to not accept that blink simply didn't use them songs for the first album cause they WEREN'T blink sounding? 

Yes, it is for me, when the albums contained: Los Angeles, Sober, HISALP, California, Last Train Home, Long Lost Feeling, Bottom of the Ocean ,etc. which couldn't be much more "non blink sounding" than a +44/Alk3 mashup...

Songs they wrote in Jan 2016 made DLX, October 2015 wouldn't have been much different, if they were worthy. 

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I love everyone here but sometimes I wonder if the cali lovers ever sit in their dm chat groups and come up with ways to cover and defend everything the band does/has done since Tom left so they will always have answers to those who complain. 

We know they ditched those songs just because they wanted to start from scratch with Feldy and see what was going to happen from there. But they definitely weren't bad songs, some of them probably weren't going anywhere but most of them must have been great. But we'll never know because we'll never get to hear them, so just relax. 

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